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Old 01-16-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,148,414 times
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Penn State gets wins restored, Joe Paterno again winningest coach - CBS News
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Not surprising... taking away the wins from the games played by the students and coached by the coaches was idiotic and an over-reach to begin with.

More importantly... the $60 Million fine that the NCAA was going to coup (and who knows what they would have done to it) will remain in the state of Pennsylvania and be donated to various charities for child abuse.
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Old 01-16-2015, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,503,405 times
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After three years, I think it's being recognized that what went on in the early days of the "Sandusky scandal", (which some people immediately tried to spin into the "Penn State / Paterno scandal") were the actions of a would-be lynch mob.

As I've said in previous posts, I don't hold anyone, including the Paterno family, blameless. It seems obvious to me that bad feelings between the two coaches had to arise when Paterno's hang-ups prevented him from turning the reins over to a person whom an uniformed public saw, at the time, as a logical successor. (And one wonders how much worse the scandal might have been, had Paterno done so).

But to picture an 80+-year-old man trying to act as a "spin doctor" -- using a technology not fully developed until he was well into his seventies? Let's get real -- please!!

Paterno reported Sandusky's behavior, as reported second-hand to him by McQueary, through the proper channels -- all he was required, or permitted to do at the time. Failure to grasp all the nuances of the New Puritanism does not equate to willful misconduct -- save in the 20/20 hindsight of those with a specific agenda.

The story appears to be entering a new phase. Those of us who lived in Happy Valley during the prime of the Paterno era, or even just came back at Homecoming, and are familiar with the story, and the mode of thinking in those times, see it much differently than those who rushed to judgment. And the continuing effort to unseat the Trustees who "needed someone to throw under the bus" bears this out.

In the end, history will be the judge; we saw the program as unique, and we seem to be moving toward a situation which will guarantee just that.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 01-16-2015 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 01-17-2015, 08:24 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,607,529 times
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I don't think it made sense to take away the results on the field - that was a hyperbolic reaction in the heat of the moment. It was a kind of "Just do something" response.

That being said, I think the NCAA and Penn State had a chance to make a profound statement, that college football is *not* bigger than life. Other programs have received the NCAA's 'death penalty' for much less. Seems to me that if any program was deserving of having its football program down for a one or two-year period of reflection, Penn State would have been a prime candidate. It's disappointing that this didn't happen. I don't think that the individuals involved (Sandusky excepted) were necessarily terrible people, but they did make terrible, terrible decisions in response to something that they had a legal and moral duty to confront. I get the argument about not making the kids pay for the crimes of others, but the reality of life is that sometimes, people do pay for the misdeeds of others, even if they weren't in any way involved. CEOs and CFOs fudge the numbers and send a company to bankruptcy? Innocent people pay with their jobs, their careers, their mortgages, even their lives - happens all the time, so let's not insulate college football players against real life consequences for cryin out loud.

The greatest concern here, in my view, is to send a message not only to PSU, but to all institutions, that there are some things that are more important than running a multi-million dollar sports operation. I don't think PSU's football program should have been sanctioned into perpetuity, but they got off a little lightly, I think. But more than that, the message to everyone is, college football is more important than the lives of individuals who don't really factor into the economics of the sport that much. You see that with the Sandusky scandal, and it's obvious that we're seeing it at other campuses like Florida State. See, that's the thing; it's not just about one campus and one scandal; it's about all campuses that have football programs. We had a chance to do that with Penn State, but ultimately chose not to go 'too far'. Maybe we needed to go 'too far' just once, just to make an example.

Going back to the CEO example. We finally got fed up and accepted that 'white collar' criminals can actually cause a lot of pain and finally said, no more games here, no more country club prisons. Mess around with people's lives, cover that up, and go to federal prison for 10-25 years. We decided that crime shouldn't pay. The same ought to be true with institutions and their beloved sports programs when they try to avoid dealing with sexual assaults and other egregious behaviors.
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Old 01-17-2015, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,503,405 times
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I have to point out that Penn State was targeted precisely because its previous reputation and a long-time dispute with the NCAA made it the most desirable "target of opportunity'' -- with the possible exception of Notre Dame. Had a similar scandal arisen at one of the remaining handful of "football mills", the impact would not have been nearly as great.

The majority of the colleges which were cited for neglect of academic and community-relations issues back in the 1970's instituted reforms of their own. I won't name names here -- Paterno himself had a temporary lapse of restraint some years ago, and paid the price.

But the comment:

We had a chance to do that with Penn State

ought to serve as a reminder that there is another group out there that is every bit as strident in its resentment of big-time college athletics as the most fanatical college football boosters and programs.

That mentality was deliberately enticed out of the background back in the fall of 2011, protected by the anonymity of the Internet, and the reputations and dignity of a lot of people who had nothing to do with Sandusky's crimes was sullied.

Unless the identity of some of the most flagrant participants in that lynch mob is divulged, the Pennsylvania State University has little more for which to apologize.
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:53 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,607,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I have to point out that Penn State was targeted precisely because its previous reputation and a long-time dispute with the NCAA made it the most desirable "target of opportunity'' -- with the possible exception of Notre Dame. Had a similar scandal arisen at one of the remaining handful of "football mills", the impact would not have been nearly as great.

The majority of the colleges which were cited for neglect of academic and community-relations issues back in the 1970's instituted reforms of their own. I won't name names here -- Paterno himself had a temporary lapse of restraint some years ago, and paid the price.

But the comment:

We had a chance to do that with Penn State

ought to serve as a reminder that there is another group out there that is every bit as strident in its resentment of big-time college athletics as the most fanatical college football boosters and programs.

That mentality was deliberately enticed out of the background back in the fall of 2011, protected by the anonymity of the Internet, and the reputations and dignity of a lot of people who had nothing to do with Sandusky's crimes was sullied.

Unless the identity of some of the most flagrant participants in that lynch mob is divulged, the Pennsylvania State University has little more for which to apologize.
I think this is off-base. The criticism has nothing to do with an irrational hatred of college athletics - I volunteered in a major collegiate program's athletic department during the 1990s as a volunteer media services intern. I like college athletics, but if an athletic program is going to be affiliated with a school and with college athletics in general, then it needs to operate in the collegiate spirit. Colleges have things like honor codes, standards of behavior, academic codes of conduct, employee codes of conduct, and other policies and rules that regulate behavior and spell out the consequences of violating those mutually agreed upon norms.
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,939 posts, read 5,295,505 times
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Good. I have always been against vacating wins for any reason.
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