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Old 02-25-2015, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,498,921 times
Reputation: 15950

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I've never made a secret of the fact that I am a graduate of Penn State, or that like most collegiate alumni, I have personal circumstances and feelings regarding my bond with my alma mater.

But I have to re-emphasize the fact that the recent suspension of "commentator" Keith Olbermann over some tasteless remarks on PSU's successful (and long-standing) annual charity dance marathon serve to remind us that certain deep resentments were in place long before the Sandusky scandal broke, and that those resentments led to further distortions as the story unfolded.

http://deadspin.com/espn-suspends-ke...ets-1687751753

Long before it all came crashing down, I think a lot of us recognized the risks involved via a failure to re-orient the program as Joe Paterno showed increasing wear and tear from the battle we all face with advancing age.Thise of us who were around from the early days probably better understood that Paterno wasn't fully capable of understanding some of the personal issues college athletes faced as societal mores changed over his 60-year tenure

And perhaps my own experiences in life (I developed a physical deformity at an early age, but participated in high school as an athletic manager) raised more questions from my personal perspective regarding Sandusky's "Second Mile" sham. Surely this individual had to recruit at least a few more people to aid in the day-to-day running of this organization; (after all, it maintained a permanent office). Yet no serious pursuit on the questions of exactly how it operated has been launched. And I cannot picture an octogenarian Paterno as the spider at the center of a conspiratorial web, fighting his battles within a constantly changing media landscape with tools a man of his age and background could not possibly understand on the same level as a 20-year-old.

At the time the scandal broke, attention was focused not only upon Paterno and Sandusky, but upon the top officials who were apparently either "asleep at the switch", or so intimidated by the unpredictability of what might happen when the facts came to light that they chose to take no action. Yet once the Freeh report" -- pushed primarily by members of the Board of Trustees who had long-standing issues with the program -- was released, and Paterno was "thrown under the bus", very little has come to light about the behavior of Curley, Schultz and Spanier.

The program seems to be essentially adrift, and I'm sure that many of those over in Left Field, a substantial portion of whom hold a deep bias against athletics, want it that way. One need only review the deluge of personal attacks hurled at Paterno over the Internet, or the depiction of the actions of a foolish few as a full-scale "riot", in the first days of the scandal to understand this. And I have to recognize that some of the recent rebuttals by the Paternos come with their own agenda.

But the Pennsylvania State University has half a million living alumni; I think most of us would agree with the mere point that the University's unique circumstances and its insularity made it a particularly vulnerable target, and a well-organized and controversial advocacy took advantage of this from the first.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 02-25-2015 at 11:28 AM..

 
Old 03-04-2015, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,012 posts, read 1,162,027 times
Reputation: 1276
Although I agree with a lot of what you said OP, Keith Olberman is an a$shole. Anyone that is even remotely familiar with sports media knows that this is NOT the first time he's been yanked off the air. His remarks were uncalled for as THON is for charity and has absolutely nothing to do with the Sandusky case.

Back around 99-2000 I can recall saying to a friend of mine that Penn State just isn't the powerhouse team that they used to be. I can recall as a child in the 80's and most of the 90's when Penn State, although they may not have won every game, could play with any team in the country. They could and did go toe to toe with the Miami's, the Florida State's, the Oklahoma's, the Notre Dame's. Recruiting, they dominated the tri-state area. If you were a top recruit in this area, you went to Penn State. By the turn of the century this had changed. After Penn State lost to Akron at home in 2001 I said "Joe needs to go." I personally feel that after he got his 400th win two months later in an upset victory over Ohio State that the end of the 2001 season would've been the appropriate time for him to step down, but he did not. Prior to the start of the 2008 season I remember Colin Cowherd saying that Joe is hurting the program at Penn State and its not going to end well when it does end. I agreed and a little over three years later when it did end Colin was right, boy was he right!

Do I think Joe had too much power? Yep. I do agree with the OP that Joe's insularity made him an easy target. My father has friends in State College that he does business with that are big donors to Penn State. One of the rumors was that Joe was grooming his son Jay to be head coach, (which is why he didn't retire), lets be glad that never happened. Let's not forget that even though the athletes aren't paid, college football, to a degree is a business, and in that business when you are a national power you are expected to perform. As ANYBODY ages your ability to do certain things decreases! JoePa is no different. Look at Bobby Bowden's last few seasons at Florida State, they weren't good. Keep in Joe got older but his players he had were still in the 18-23 age bracket. The man was generationally out of touch with men he coached. I don't know about you people, but I'm 35 and I have a hell of a time relating to and having a conversation with anyone over the age of 70. More than likely the magnitude of this whole sex abuse case was way over an aging Paterno's head, but not over the head's of Curley and Shultz. I did hear, from a reliable source that after Sandusky resigned in '99 that Joe went to his superiors and said he didn't want Sandusky around anymore, obviously it fell on def ears because he, (Sandusky) still had his key to the facilities. Yes there was a power struggle between Spanier and Paterno

I personally don't believe Joe Paterno intentionally covered up the sex abuse scandal. I also believe the NCAA way over stepped its boundries as far as the sanctions and stripping of wins. However, had Joe retired 10 years earlier I guarantee it would NOT have gone down on HIM this harshly.

I also feel that there is a lot about this whole case that the general public will never know. Let's not forget there is a missing Centre County DA who went missing in 2007 when this was starting to unravel, but before the whole scandal was made public and his body to this day has never been found. We all know the Freeh Report is bias and inconclusive.

Just like most of the other Penn State fans I want to see PSU football return to the glory days. Is Franklin the right guy? Who knows. Rome was not built in a day. I say we give him 3 to 4 seasons THEN make a judgment call.
 
Old 03-04-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,365 posts, read 8,360,332 times
Reputation: 6954
You described Olberman correctly.

And you might be correct about Paterno being out of touch (no pun intended), but to most outsiders, the PSU "culture" in the leadership got what it deserved. Ugly business it was.

People need to move on and let State College rebuild its reputation.
 
Old 07-27-2015, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Asia
2,761 posts, read 1,100,867 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
...certain deep resentments were in place long before the Sandusky scandal broke, and that those resentments led to further distortions as the story unfolded...
The obvious question, then, is what led to those certain deep resentments?

From my perspective, reasonable people resented Ped State long before the Sandusky (NO, this is a scandal of systemic proportion which seeped like slime deep into the cynically cultivated culture of Ped State and is not limited to that scum, Sandusky) scandal broke is that many people knew all along that Ped State was hypocritical in the way it always trumpeted its holier-than-thou way of doing things... what was it? The Paterno Way?

Hold yourselves up as everyone's better and then get exposed as a horrible fraud placing football pride above the safety and innocence of children, even as those children are most viciously victimized... Yeah. What type of reaction did you expect?
 
Old 08-01-2015, 03:23 AM
 
1,899 posts, read 2,947,808 times
Reputation: 1617
Quote:
Originally Posted by supertrucker212 View Post
Although I agree with a lot of what you said OP, Keith Olberman is an a$shole. Anyone that is even remotely familiar with sports media knows that this is NOT the first time he's been yanked off the air. His remarks were uncalled for as THON is for charity and has absolutely nothing to do with the Sandusky case.

Back around 99-2000 I can recall saying to a friend of mine that Penn State just isn't the powerhouse team that they used to be. I can recall as a child in the 80's and most of the 90's when Penn State, although they may not have won every game, could play with any team in the country. They could and did go toe to toe with the Miami's, the Florida State's, the Oklahoma's, the Notre Dame's. Recruiting, they dominated the tri-state area. If you were a top recruit in this area, you went to Penn State. By the turn of the century this had changed. After Penn State lost to Akron at home in 2001 I said "Joe needs to go." I personally feel that after he got his 400th win two months later in an upset victory over Ohio State that the end of the 2001 season would've been the appropriate time for him to step down, but he did not. Prior to the start of the 2008 season I remember Colin Cowherd saying that Joe is hurting the program at Penn State and its not going to end well when it does end. I agreed and a little over three years later when it did end Colin was right, boy was he right!

Do I think Joe had too much power? Yep. I do agree with the OP that Joe's insularity made him an easy target. My father has friends in State College that he does business with that are big donors to Penn State. One of the rumors was that Joe was grooming his son Jay to be head coach, (which is why he didn't retire), lets be glad that never happened. Let's not forget that even though the athletes aren't paid, college football, to a degree is a business, and in that business when you are a national power you are expected to perform. As ANYBODY ages your ability to do certain things decreases! JoePa is no different. Look at Bobby Bowden's last few seasons at Florida State, they weren't good. Keep in Joe got older but his players he had were still in the 18-23 age bracket. The man was generationally out of touch with men he coached. I don't know about you people, but I'm 35 and I have a hell of a time relating to and having a conversation with anyone over the age of 70. More than likely the magnitude of this whole sex abuse case was way over an aging Paterno's head, but not over the head's of Curley and Shultz. I did hear, from a reliable source that after Sandusky resigned in '99 that Joe went to his superiors and said he didn't want Sandusky around anymore, obviously it fell on def ears because he, (Sandusky) still had his key to the facilities. Yes there was a power struggle between Spanier and Paterno

I personally don't believe Joe Paterno intentionally covered up the sex abuse scandal. I also believe the NCAA way over stepped its boundries as far as the sanctions and stripping of wins. However, had Joe retired 10 years earlier I guarantee it would NOT have gone down on HIM this harshly.

I also feel that there is a lot about this whole case that the general public will never know. Let's not forget there is a missing Centre County DA who went missing in 2007 when this was starting to unravel, but before the whole scandal was made public and his body to this day has never been found. We all know the Freeh Report is bias and inconclusive.

Just like most of the other Penn State fans I want to see PSU football return to the glory days. Is Franklin the right guy? Who knows. Rome was not built in a day. I say we give him 3 to 4 seasons THEN make a judgment call.


Just to clarify Penn State lost to Toledo in 2000. They did not even play Akron in '01. I should know I'm a Toledo grad who went ape crazy that day.
 
Old 08-04-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
3,188 posts, read 6,342,254 times
Reputation: 1289
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard the DA's themselves, on 60 Minutes, say Paterno had nothing to do with the scandal, at all. That's why he wasn't charged!

The NCAA had no jurisdiction. It had to ask Penn State for jurisdiction. Now, that's an offer Penn State could not, and would not, refuse, for obvious, public reasons!

I have a question: How much of the Trustee Board is still intact? Now, the administrators/coaches (Spanier, Curley, Paterno, Sandusky) were removed, but what about the Trustees? Is it a brand new board; with newly elected folk? Just asking.

No comment on Olbermann.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,012 posts, read 1,162,027 times
Reputation: 1276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post
The obvious question, then, is what led to those certain deep resentments?

From my perspective, reasonable people resented Penn State long before the Sandusky (NO, this is a scandal of systemic proportion which seeped like slime deep into the cynically cultivated culture of Penn State and is not limited to that scum, Sandusky) scandal broke is that many people knew all along that Penn State was hypocritical in the way it always trumpeted its holier-than-thou way of doing things... what was it? The Paterno Way?

Hold yourselves up as everyone's better and then get exposed as a horrible fraud placing football pride above the safety and innocence of children, even as those children are most viciously victimized... Yeah. What type of reaction did you expect?
First of all, don't come on here and disrespect my team, (Ped State, real mature as$hole). How exactly did Joe aid in the victimizing of children when the DA said he had nothing to do with the incident and has been cooperative with authorities? BTW, PSU had one of the highest graduation rates of football players in the country under Joe. So yeah we do have something to brag about. Joe went to his superiors when the assistant coach told him what he saw!! The night Joe was fired his son Scott said lets remember the victims in this. So what are your comebacks to that??? Put it in your pipe and smoke it. I'll still proudly sport the blue and white!
 
Old 08-10-2015, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,498,921 times
Reputation: 15950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post
From my perspective, reasonable people resented Ped State long before the Sandusky (NO, this is a scandal of systemic proportion which seeped like slime deep into the cynically cultivated culture of Ped State and is not limited to that scum, Sandusky) scandal broke is that many people knew all along that Ped State was hypocritical in the way it always trumpeted its holier-than-thou way of doing things... what was it? The Paterno Way?

Hold yourselves up as everyone's better and then get exposed as a horrible fraud placing football pride above the safety and innocence of children, even as those children are most viciously victimized... Yeah. What type of reaction did you expect?
Many times during his tenure, Joe Paterno called attention to some of the misconceptions and distortions fostered by college athletics, and the attempts by various factions to influence them. One I recall in particular was his advocacy for the issuance of a very small "stipend" for athletes. The NCAA fought it tooth-and-claw, of course, then wrung its hands at abuses discovered at other institutions. And BTW, Penn State seldom, if ever "trumpeted its reputation" -- but it was recognized by many observers who could note the difference between Penn State and the likes of Oklahoma and other notorious "football mills" of those times. A lot of that disparity has been rectified, in a lot of schools, but we remember who got there first.

We'll likely never know how Sandusky was able to develop the deceptions inherent in his "Second Mile" scheme; as a person with a small physical handicap which gave me a view of high school athletics (where I was a "manager" -- with responsibility for equipment, practice "chores", and the like), I probably got a slightly-better exposure to the "jock" culture than most, and subtle doubts were raised in my mind occasionally. But this was Penn State -- a place which, we thought, had enough respect for a close media scrutiny not to take any chances. Somewhere along the way, somebody abandoned his watch -- but it wasn't Paterno, who became a perfect candidate to be "thrown under the bus" to appease the more simplistic, and to take some of the heat of those who deserved more of it.

Your tasteless use of the term "Ped State" merely serves as a reminder that you eagerly bought into a well-organized campaign based upon smear tactics, and likely from the instant it was launched. The identities of those who organized it will likely never be divulged, but a closer look reveals a good deal about their motivation.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 08-10-2015 at 09:48 PM..
 
Old 08-10-2015, 09:01 PM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,758,040 times
Reputation: 32364
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
I've never made a secret of the fact that I am a graduate of Penn State, or that like most collegiate alumni, I have personal circumstances and feelings regarding my bond with my alma mater.

But I have to re-emphasize the fact that the recent suspension of "commentator" Keith Olbermann over some tasteless remarks on PSU's successful (and long-standing) annual charity dance marathon serve to remind us that certain deep resentments were in place long before the Sandusky scandal broke, and that those resentments led to further distortions as the story unfolded.

ESPN Suspends Keith Olbermann For Penn State Tweets

Long before it all came crashing down, I think a lot of us recognized the risks involved via a failure to re-orient the program as Joe Paterno showed increasing wear and tear from the battle we all face with advancing age.Thise of us who were around from the early days probably better understood that Paterno wasn't fully capable of understanding some of the personal issues college athletes faced as societal mores changed over his 60-year tenure

And perhaps my own experiences in life (I developed a physical deformity at an early age, but participated in high school as an athletic manager) raised more questions from my personal perspective regarding Sandusky's "Second Mile" sham. Surely this individual had to recruit at least a few more people to aid in the day-to-day running of this organization; (after all, it maintained a permanent office). Yet no serious pursuit on the questions of exactly how it operated has been launched. And I cannot picture an octogenarian Paterno as the spider at the center of a conspiratorial web, fighting his battles within a constantly changing media landscape with tools a man of his age and background could not possibly understand on the same level as a 20-year-old.

At the time the scandal broke, attention was focused not only upon Paterno and Sandusky, but upon the top officials who were apparently either "asleep at the switch", or so intimidated by the unpredictability of what might happen when the facts came to light that they chose to take no action. Yet once the Freeh report" -- pushed primarily by members of the Board of Trustees who had long-standing issues with the program -- was released, and Paterno was "thrown under the bus", very little has come to light about the behavior of Curley, Schultz and Spanier.

The program seems to be essentially adrift, and I'm sure that many of those over in Left Field, a substantial portion of whom hold a deep bias against athletics, want it that way. One need only review the deluge of personal attacks hurled at Paterno over the Internet, or the depiction of the actions of a foolish few as a full-scale "riot", in the first days of the scandal to understand this. And I have to recognize that some of the recent rebuttals by the Paternos come with their own agenda.

But the Pennsylvania State University has half a million living alumni; I think most of us would agree with the mere point that the University's unique circumstances and its insularity made it a particularly vulnerable target, and a well-organized and controversial advocacy took advantage of this from the first.
Go back and read the early threads when the scandal first broke. The attacks on the victims and denial of any wrong doing by Sandusky were swift and savage. They went after the victims for lying and being out for money pretty hard.

Now you're claiming that basically the program was picked on by people with an agenda?

I really think you're better off letting that sleeping dog lie because there were a lot of really really ugly comments by rabid fan(atic)s that IMO are the ones that the Penn State alumni should be most angry with.

The bottom line is that Sandusky got caught red-handed and got away with it despite it being reported that he was butt humping a kid in the shower. Now maybe Paterno was just getting a little senile like one superfan suggests but that still looks terrible for the school as a whole.

I still remember some posters extremely upset and concerned about.........what that might mean in terms of bowl game and NCAA sanctions, it was disturbing to read.

The one thing I never figured out though was I wonder how you guys square the circle about his sudden retirement. What happened there, he was going to be the next head coach?
 
Old 08-11-2015, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
3,188 posts, read 6,342,254 times
Reputation: 1289
In addition to the thread I posted, let me stick my neck out and admit that I am a Syracuse alum.

As everyone knows, we went through a similar controversy with Bernie Fine. I will say this: many Syracuse alum did raise questions about the Fine situation that got them vilified as 'enablers' of molestation. There were passions that went back and forth on both sides!

Having said that, I can understand the passions that have gone back and forth at Happy Valley. We all agree that no one, I repeat no one, wants to have a crime like that on their campus, or anywhere else; and that safeguards must be put in place so that molestation never happens again!
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