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Old 04-16-2015, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Calera, AL
1,160 posts, read 1,441,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpy View Post
In a way, that makes Davis' stats more impressive. He ran behind an inferior offensive line that was trying (often unsuccessfully) to block superior defenders.

Eddie George, on the other hand, played for a team that was ranked #1 or #2 for the entire season before losing to Michigan in the last game. The talent around him buttressed his performance.

Like the article suggests, the Heisman isn't about rewarding the best individual player in college football. It's about drawing big ratings and generating big hype by parading the flashiest players from the sexiest programs with the biggest fan bases.
That's what the Maxwell award is for

The Heisman is basically a Miss America pageant that happens to feature college football players.
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Old 04-17-2015, 11:45 AM
 
Location: California
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My biggest robbery was beleive it or not when Archie Griffin won his first Heisman in 1974. Back in those days the voting was done before all the games were completed.

Anthony Davis and Archie Griffin were neck and neck, but in USC's last game against Notre Dame, Anthony Davis scored 6 touchdowns including a second half kickoff for a 102 yard touchdown return. He averaged a record 42.5 yards per kick off return that season.

But since the voting had already taken place, the game was never taken into consideration when it came to Heisman votes, and Davis came in second to Griffin.

The NCAA realized an injustice was served, they changed the voting rules the next season so this wouldn't ever happen again.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:10 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,901,398 times
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Yes; the Heisman is player most valuable to his team; not best player in college football.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:38 PM
 
Location: The "Rock"
2,551 posts, read 2,412,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Yes; the Heisman is player most valuable to his team; not best player in college football.

It's actually...

The outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity. Winners epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work.

I do not see the words valuable and team in there.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,371 posts, read 8,366,401 times
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I might add to the Vince Young - Reggie Bush debacle, Bush was stripped of his Heisman because of his corruption of the NCAA rules (and really was ineligible). Too bad it took 5 years to resolve his cheating scandal. No wonder Pete Carroll fled from USC and left the school holding the bag.

But the Heisman is a joke for the simple fact that it is awarded BEFORE the bowls & "playoff" games. In retrospect (discounting the cheating scandal) there is no doubt who would've earned the 2005 Heisman had the voting taken place after the January Rose Bowl. Not to mention Young's back to back Rose Bowl performances. Too bad he was too immature to cope with a hostile Titans coach - that team could've gone far in the NFL playoffs more than once. But, I digress.

College Football national championships used to be awarded after the regular season ended and prior to the bowl games. That silliness thankfully ended after the 1970 season (undefeated #1 Texas lost to Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl), and now the MMNC is determined after the bowls.

The Downtown Athletic Club in NY should do the same, otherwise the Heisman is a worthless joke IMO.
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:51 PM
 
2,294 posts, read 1,559,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H View Post
At the top of my list is an individual who is not listed here.

He came in fifth in the voting for the 1956 Heisman award.
Ahead of him was Paul Hornung, Johnny Majors, Tommy McDonald, and Jerry Tubbs.

For over two decades he held the NFL record for total yards gained until Franco Harris broke it in 1984.
He, along with Johnny Unitas and Vince Lombardi were the men primarily responsible for transforming America from a baseball watching nation to a football watching nation.

He played 9 seasons in the NFL and did not miss a game due to injury. Not one.
Eight of those nine years he led the NFL in rushing. Jim Taylor of the Green Bay Packers was the only one to come in with bigger numbers in any one year.

Until NFL Films had their "Top 100 Players In NFL History" series in 2012, he and Johnny Unitas were recognized by pretty much every sports writer and pretty much every football fan from that era as number one and two as the top players in NFL history.

In my view he will always be the best running back in NFL history. 4 of the seasons he played were 12 game seasons, the other 5 were 14 game seasons. He could have played 5 more seasons, maybe more than five, but quit because he wanted to do other things. Like being in movies. And making more money than he ever made in the NFL.

He was wronged. Coming in at 5th place in the voting? Wronged.


Jim Brown.
Well, being voted the "best" college player and comparing that with a pro career are two ENTIRELY different things. He may have had an outstanding college career, also. I didn't compare it with the others.
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Old 06-25-2015, 04:55 PM
 
16,522 posts, read 20,966,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkmere View Post
Well, being voted the "best" college player and comparing that with a pro career are two ENTIRELY different things. He may have had an outstanding college career, also. I didn't compare it with the others.
I did compare it. The comments you are referring to were from post #2. It's posts #5 and #7 on this thread is where I went into detail.
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Old 07-03-2015, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
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DOUBLE H - Jim Brown's NFL rushing record was broken by Walter Payton.

I think your confusion is arising out of the fact Brown made noises that he'd come out of retirement if Franco Harris threatened his record; Brown didn't respect Harris' run for the sidelines style.
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHIP72 View Post
DOUBLE H - Jim Brown's NFL rushing record was broken by Walter Payton.

I think your confusion is arising out of the fact Brown made noises that he'd come out of retirement if Franco Harris threatened his record; Brown didn't respect Harris' run for the sidelines style.
Agreed, I know. Several other people are ahead of Brown as well, they are all from the last decade or so; players such as Curtis Martin, Ladanian Tomlinson, Tony Dorsett, Barry Sanders, and a few others. And of course, Emmit Smith, who topped Walter's record. What I should have done was to state the term "at the time" regarding his stats overall with Cleveland.

But what made Brown's NFL record special to me was the fact that it was set when seasons were only 14 games and in fact in Brown's first three seasons the seasons at that time only had 12 games. Plus when Brown retired he flat out wanted to do other things. He never missed a game to an injury and to me that is a REMARKABLE stat. He was overseas and had a role in the classic movie "The Dirty Dozen."

The bad weather was creating a lot of delays with filming. Brown in the meanwhile became late for reporting for the Browns training camp that year (1966) When Art Modell made the statement in the press that Brown would be facing a fine for being several days late. Brown's response? He sent a telegram from where the movie set was to the Browns organization and simply said "I retire, effective today." Heh, I remember a statement in ESPN's documentary "Sports Century" series that had a one hour bio on Brown, one of his friends, Vincent Cohen,made the statement,"He was getting hit all the time for 60 thousand a season, then kisses Raquel Welch in a movie and makes 150 thousand. To me,that's a no-brainer! Heh, smart man!

Franco Harris? Nah, not an issue, not with me anyway. I DO remember when that stuff hit the papers, in fact I remember the Sports Illustrated cover with Jim Brown on the cover and I remember the comments Brown made regarding Franco. I just shook my head when all that stuff blew over.


ADD>>>>>> I do recognize a couple items here though.

Syracuse University had a respectable past but was never a real football powerhouse. But when Ben Schwarzwalter took over the program he had an awful lot of good years from the early 1950's to the early 1970's before finally retiring. In fact, two years after Brown signed with Cleveland, Schwarzwalter coached Syracuse to it's only national championship, beating 4th ranked Texas 23-14 in the Cotton Bowl. By this time Brown had played his third year with Cleveland and the main man for Syracuse was Ernie Davis, who DID win the Heisman in 1961. Still IMO Syracuse didn't rank as a football powerhouse in the eyes of the national press. The press considered Oklahoma, Notre Dame, USC, and Ohio State royalty. They still do, in fact.

Current stats regarding Heisman Trophy winners>>>Ohio State--7 Heisman Trophy winners, Notre Dame 7, USC-6, and Oklahoma-5. With finalists Tommy McDonald (Oklahoma), Jerry Tubbs (Oklahoma) and Paul Hornung (Notre Dame) in the mix Brown certainly was swimming upstream here. And to give credit where credit's due, Hornung only got 26.9% of the vote with Tubbs, McDonald, Brown, and Johnny Majors of Tennessee dividing up the rest.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 07-04-2015 at 02:47 PM..
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Dublin, OH
2,409 posts, read 3,425,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpy View Post
Saturdays in the Fall :: Robbed! 4 Players Who Should Have Won the Heisman but Didn't

This article echos the argument I've been making for years. Namely, that the Heisman sucks and has been a joke for decades now. The writer also nails it, in my opinion, that Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning was the biggest Heisman robbery ever.

Let's face it: The best player usually doesn't win the award. It's more about politics and ratings than rewarding achievement, and most fans know that by now.

What do you think of this list? Are these the biggest Heisman rip-offs ever? If it were expanded to a top 10 or top 15 instead of just a top 4, who else should be on there?
Peyton didn't get robbed...he sucked every time they played Florida and lost...even to a mediocre UF team in 1997. As much as I hated Woodson, he shined in UM's biggest games...to seal the perfect season and National Title (should have been unanimous as they didn't need a kicked catch miracle to beat anyone like Neb did against a bad Missouri team), against my Buckeyes (ranked #3 entering that game), he Picked off a pass in the endzone denying a TD...he held the Big Ten's and one of the country's best WRs in David Boston to 2 catches all game...he took a punt back for a TD...he took a kick back to midfield to set up their only offensive TD and he made several key plays offensively to move the chains and keep OSU's really good offense off the field.
I'm one of those that feel defensive players should win it more often as they many times have a bigger effect on the outcome of games.

I think Jim Brown in 56 and Vince Young in 2005 were the biggest snubs.
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