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Old 12-17-2016, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
447 posts, read 475,709 times
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Originally Posted by IShootNikon View Post
Again, come to me if/when Clemson wins it all.
The same could be said to you, my friend. Except, of course, you still refuse to name your team. Perhaps you fear being laughed off the thread if you ever come clean...
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
OSU D is very opportunistic. If the Ville and Wolfpack can do it- OSU can.
I'm not sure if sports necessarily work that way. The way one game plays out between two teams on a given date really doesn't mean anything about the way a game will play out between two different teams on a different date. For example, Michigan State beat Ohio State last year and advanced to the CFP. However, Michigan State couldn't even score against Alabama. They were thoroughly humiliated. Clemson scored 40 points on Alabama's vaunted defense. Does that fact mean that Clemson would necessarily hang a 60 burger on either MSU or OSU? Better yet, does that mean that NC State, South Carolina, and UNC, who all took Clemson down to the wire during their regular season meetings, would handily beat Ohio State and Michigan State since they played a competitive game against a team that almost beat Alabama?

It's true that Clemson has been shaky at times during the regular season, but I think they are a better team than their record suggests. In some ways, they are like your beloved Cleveland Cavaliers who were playing below their potential for much of the regular season in 2015-16.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I'm actually very sure that OSU's defense is better than Clemson's D. They've scored 6 defensive TDs and are near the top in EVERY defensive category.
Their defenses, imo, are a wash. OSU has a good secondary, but Clemson trails only Alabama in total sacks and is tied for third in tackles for loss. If you are an OSU fan, then Clemson's front line has to be a major concern because Ohio State doesn't pass protect that well, and their passing game is not a particularly great threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I think OSU is confident in their personnel more so than 2016 Clemson Opponents have been confident. They will play tight man coverage with two first round DBs and have Malik Hooker play the field (selected IF he enters in the 1st round this year) and then spy Watson underneath with LBs that run 4.5s. Clemson needs to take a different approach with this game or they lose IMO. If they take chances like they have all season OSU will hurt them. They need Gallman to carry the ball 25 times.
I don't see this as a matchup where OSU is in the driver's seat and "unless Clemson can do this, they lose." I think Clemson could be a YUGE problem for the Buckeyes because one of their greatest strengths (aggressive D-Line) will be going up against one of the Buckeyes greatest weaknesses (pass protection, inaccurate QB). Clemson's offense vs OSU's defense is more of a strength against strength matchup, and even then, Clemson may have an upper hand because they are so deep at the WR position. OSU doesn't exactly have a lights out pass rush, so it's not difficult to imagine a scenario in which Clemson empties the backfield, puts 5 wideouts on the field, and goes HUNH.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,353 posts, read 26,361,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
turnovers in past games don't tell you anything about a future game. some of them were tipped ball interceptions as well, fluke stuff.

OSU was also going up less talented offenses. Clemson spreads the ball around.
I think you can sort of see the difference in the challenges a team like Clemson brings to the table compared to Mich/Wisc/PSU by looking at last year's Alabama/Michigan State semi-final game.

Most of the Big Ten has relatively immobile "pro-style" QBs who sit in the pocket like sitting ducks for athletic defenses. That was basically the case with Connor Cook last year and Alabama took them apart 38-0. Against Clemson, however, they had a much more difficult time containing Watson since he could easily keep drives alive with his legs once a play broke down. It's not necessarily the designed runs that kill you, but the conversions on 3rd and 5 where the QB slips away for a 1st down. J.T. Barrett presents the same problem as Watson in that regard, but as you stated earlier, J.T. Barrett is not as good passing the ball or running the ball as Deshaun Watson.

The only thing Barrett does better than Watson as a QB is commit fewer turnovers, but that's mostly a product of not throwing the ball as much and making fewer downfield throws. IMO, he seems to throw easier routes (which he sometimes struggles to get completions on) while Watson is much more of a threat to go deep with accuracy.
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Old 12-21-2016, 03:55 PM
 
2,847 posts, read 1,791,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I'm not sure if sports necessarily work that way. The way one game plays out between two teams on a given date really doesn't mean anything about the way a game will play out between two different teams on a different date. For example, Michigan State beat Ohio State last year and advanced to the CFP. However, Michigan State couldn't even score against Alabama. They were thoroughly humiliated. Clemson scored 40 points on Alabama's vaunted defense. Does that fact mean that Clemson would necessarily hang a 60 burger on either MSU or OSU? Better yet, does that mean that NC State, South Carolina, and UNC, who all took Clemson down to the wire during their regular season meetings, would handily beat Ohio State and Michigan State since they played a competitive game against a team that almost beat Alabama?

It's true that Clemson has been shaky at times during the regular season, but I think they are a better team than their record suggests. In some ways, they are like your beloved Cleveland Cavaliers who were playing below their potential for much of the regular season in 2015-16.
"Better than record suggests" Should they be undefeated? Granted, The Pitt game was a close defeat but they beat NC State on a missed chip shot FG. They've had other close games (just like OSU).


Weird comparison as the Cavs were without the services of Kyrie Irving for the first 25 games last year and then they spent the next 20-30 games monitoring his minutes. Does Clemson have a superstar coming back from injury more or less and excuse for their less than ideal play?


Clemson will not win this game being pass oriented. They will need balance. That's not to say they will make mistakes as they did in the games I mentioned. My comment is geared to the fact that OSU's Back 7 will make some plays. Clemson will not necessarily have to help them out like they have during the season with other teams.

Last edited by eastcoastbias; 12-21-2016 at 04:19 PM..
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:10 PM
 
2,847 posts, read 1,791,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Their defenses, imo, are a wash. OSU has a good secondary, but Clemson trails only Alabama in total sacks and is tied for third in tackles for loss. If you are an OSU fan, then Clemson's front line has to be a major concern because Ohio State doesn't pass protect that well, and their passing game is not a particularly great threat.



I don't see this as a matchup where OSU is in the driver's seat and "unless Clemson can do this, they lose." I think Clemson could be a YUGE problem for the Buckeyes because one of their greatest strengths (aggressive D-Line) will be going up against one of the Buckeyes greatest weaknesses (pass protection, inaccurate QB). Clemson's offense vs OSU's defense is more of a strength against strength matchup, and even then, Clemson may have an upper hand because they are so deep at the WR position. OSU doesn't exactly have a lights out pass rush, so it's not difficult to imagine a scenario in which Clemson empties the backfield, puts 5 wideouts on the field, and goes HUNH.
I honestly don't see it as a wash. If Clemson gets cocky and decides to win this game slinging the ball around the field the secondary of OSU is going to make some big plays. OSU played Okla who hurried and emptied the backfield or had 4 WR set with Mixon in the backfield- OSU D made big plays that game.


Valid concern that you bring up for OSU fans (pass protection) specifically the RT spot. Up the middle you have two good guards and the best center in college football. How the RT spot holds up against Clemson's front is a top key to the game. I hope OSU deploys some creativity to handle the situation.


I think OSU fans are nervous but hopeful with regard to the pass game.


1. Clemson has problems in the short yardage pass game (TE and Backs). Curtis Samuel is arguably the best player in CFB catching passes out of the backfield. Their TE play is very solid.


2. Weather. It is no secret JT Barrett has struggled throughout his career with adverse weather conditions. Thank God for Phoenix. OSU has had lousy weather (wind, rain, snow) in four games this year.


3. There have been occasions where the play calling and execution have been AWESOME games that come to mind (BG, Okla, Neb.) with the layoff and time to game plan I hope that plays into and again OSU has faced better defense than Clemson's D.

Last edited by eastcoastbias; 12-21-2016 at 04:19 PM..
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,353 posts, read 26,361,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
"Better than record suggests" Should they be undefeated? Granted, The Pitt game was a close defeat but they beat NC State on a missed chip shot FG. They've had other close games (just like OSU).
My point is that those games don't matter now. Saying that they almost lost to so and so doesn't mean anything as far as the current matchup is concerned. I mean, Clemson barely beat a South Carolina team that was on life support last year. And they almost lost to a North Carolina team that lost to that raggedy South Carolina team. Yet they went to the Playoff last year and smacked down Oklahoma and led Alabama going into the 4th quarter. Past performance is not always predictive of future performance and it certainly is not indicative of potential. Just ask Tom Brady and the New England Patriots whether the Giants were better than their 9-7 record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Weird comparison as the Cavs were without the services of Kyrie Irving for the first 25 games last year and then they spent the next 20-30 games monitoring his minutes. Does Clemson have a superstar coming back from injury more or less and excuse for their less than ideal play?
Not a weird comparison considering the Warriors blew them out on their home court in a nationally-televised "revenge" game. Then they proceeded to soundly beat them in back-to-back games in Oakland and everyone said the Cavs were done.

A team at the beginning of the season can be a completely different team by the end of the season. The New York Giants that lost to the dismal Washington Redskins twice were not the same New York Giants that had Tom Brady seeing ghosts. The talent was always there to be a Super Bowl-winning team, but things didn't come together until the very end of the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Clemson will not win this game being pass oriented. They will need balance. That's not to say they will make mistakes as they did in the games I mentioned. My comment is geared to the fact that OSU's Back 7 will make some plays. Saw that first hand in UM game.
You could say the same thing about OSU, only Barrett needs to make throws. Watson and Gallman are proven runners, even if their numbers are down from last season. J.T. Barrett, on the other hand, is not a proven passer. He often throws balls into the dirt, holds the ball too long, misses open receivers on basic routes, and can't hit his long ball with any consistency. That's not to say he can't have a good game, but Penn State and Michigan have showed that you can make OSU a one-dimensional team by loading the box against Barrett. PSU sacked him 8 times!
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:32 PM
 
2,847 posts, read 1,791,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
My point is that those games don't matter now. Saying that they almost lost to so and so doesn't mean anything as far as the current matchup is concerned. I mean, Clemson barely beat a South Carolina team that was on life support last year. And they almost lost to a North Carolina team that lost to that raggedy South Carolina team. Yet they went to the Playoff last year and smacked down Oklahoma and led Alabama going into the 4th quarter. Past performance is not always predictive of future performance and it certainly is not indicative of potential. Just ask Tom Brady and the New England Patriots whether the Giants were better than their 9-7 record.



Not a weird comparison considering the Warriors blew them out on their home court in a nationally-televised "revenge" game. Then they proceeded to soundly beat them in back-to-back games in Oakland and everyone said the Cavs were done.

A team at the beginning of the season can be a completely different team by the end of the season. The New York Giants that lost to the dismal Washington Redskins twice were not the same New York Giants that had Tom Brady seeing ghosts. The talent was always there to be a Super Bowl-winning team, but things didn't come together until the very end of the season.



You could say the same thing about OSU, only Barrett needs to make throws. Watson and Gallman are proven runners, even if their numbers are down from last season. J.T. Barrett, on the other hand, is not a proven passer. He often throws balls into the dirt, holds the ball too long, misses open receivers on basic routes, and can't hit his long ball with any consistency. That's not to say he can't have a good game, but Penn State and Michigan have showed that you can make OSU a one-dimensional team by loading the box against Barrett. PSU sacked him 8 times!
Barrett can pass. His numbers clearly reflect the ability to pass. He can be hot and cold. OSU is hoping for hot but I think lukewarm gets it done.


You downplay close Clemson games but yet you bring up an 8 sack performance that PSU put on OSU (half the sacks coming in the last 4 mins.- terrible performance by OSU- but hey maybe OSU overcomes that performance like Clemson is projected to do???)


I don't think anyone is saying Clemson is done- they are merely a 3 point underdog. I think they have to be careful with their approach against OSU. I think folks are downplaying this fact. I don't think Clemson can line up 5 wide and zing it. It won't be easy getting Gallman and Watson going on the ground, but they need to make the effort to take 3 and 4 yards and be balanced and keep the ball out of the air 40+ times.
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,353 posts, read 26,361,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I honestly don't see it as a wash. If Clemson gets cocky and decides to win this game slinging the ball around the field the secondary of OSU is going to make some big plays. OSU played Okla who hurried and emptied the backfield or had 4 WR set with Mixon in the backfield- OSU D made big plays that game.
The difference here, obviously, is that Clemson enjoys superiority over Oklahoma at virtually every skill position. Clemson has, imo, the best wide receiver corps in college football. They also have an All-American tight end. And one big difference between Watson and Mayfield is that the former presents a much greater running threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Valid concern that you bring up for OSU fans (pass protection) specifically the RT spot. Up the middle you have two good guards and the best center in college football. How the RT spot holds up against Clemson's front is a top key to the game. I hope OSU deploys some creativity to handle the situation.
Well, if he can't handle their edge rushers, then they'll have to double team, which then limits what they can do offensively. OSU would be wise to use some bubble screens and misdirections.

I see this as more or less an even matchup since both teams have weaknesses that can be exploited. Offensively, Clemson is much more explosive than any team in the Big 10, and Deshaun Watson is much better than any QB in the Big 10 notwithstanding his up and down play this year. Defensively, Clemson seems to have lapses and their defensive line seems to tire out late in games. Overall, though, I tend to give the edge to more balanced teams, and I see Clemson as being more balanced since they can beat you with their aerial attack or a combination of Watson/Gallman running.
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,353 posts, read 26,361,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Barrett can pass. His numbers clearly reflect the ability to pass. He can be hot and cold. OSU is hoping for hot but I think lukewarm gets it done.
He's not a good passer. I know you're from Ohio and all, but I don't think anyone not associated with OSU would ever describe him as a good passer. I'm not even sure if most OSU fans would describe him as a good passer. OSU's offense is built around the run and the throws they require of Barrett are relatively easier throws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
You downplay close Clemson games but yet you bring up an 8 sack performance that PSU put on OSU (half the sacks coming in the last 4 mins.- terrible performance by OSU- but hey maybe OSU overcomes that performance like Clemson is projected to do???)
I brought that up because it is a strength of Clemson that's going to be directly matched up with a weakness of Ohio State.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I don't think anyone is saying Clemson is done- they are merely a 3 point underdog. I think they have to be careful with their approach against OSU. I think folks are downplaying this fact. I don't think Clemson can line up 5 wide and zing it. It won't be easy getting Gallman and Watson going on the ground, but they need to make the effort to take 3 and 4 yards and be balanced and keep the ball out of the air 40+ times.
I don't think you are saying Clemson is done. I do think you believe that the game is on Ohio State's racquet, so to speak. In other words, you see this as Ohio State's game to lose, and I don't necessarily see it that way.

Any team that puts up 600 yards on Alabama's defense gets the benefit of the doubt from me. I don't particularly care if they struggled against NC State.
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