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Old 12-15-2016, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,918 posts, read 6,552,644 times
Reputation: 5392

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Ohio State, despite winning neither its conference nor its division, is one of the 4 teams in the national play-offs. Unquestionably OSU belongs based on what it accomplished, its credentials are real and vaunted with the only loss being a close one to Penn State.

But I still have to question the concept here. If conferences are to have meaning (and I feel they should, that they are essential to the college football experience), what are the implications of a non-conference winner going into the field of four? what does such a circumstance do to the value of the Big Ten championship game: it was clear from the start that neither Wisconsin nor Penn State were going to the field of four.....so why play the championship?

The expansion we saw among conferences in the 1990s and into the 2000s was involved with expanding to 12 team leagues in order to hold a lucrative championship game. In the process, you often found an imbalance between the two conferences and one of the teams in a championship game often didn't belong....common scheduling became a thing of the past.

IMHO, I'd like to see conference champs automatically go into a play-off. The nation is large enough to have 8 major conferences with 12 teams each. 96 is a reasonable number for BCS membership. If conferences with 12 teams each played an 11 game round robin, a fair championship could be crowned and in case of a tie (two teams...automatically seeded, 3 or more....2 selected by formula) a championship game could be played.

8 league champions, all playing in a major new years day bowl....the 4 winners going on to east and west championship games, those two winners playing for the national championship.

no voting;no polls; no decision making...you win by the rules..just like MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL. The conferences keep their full weight and importance. and a true national champion, our of a field of 8, is awarded.
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Old 12-15-2016, 10:31 AM
 
4,315 posts, read 2,530,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Ohio State, despite winning neither its conference nor its division, is one of the 4 teams in the national play-offs. Unquestionably OSU belongs based on what it accomplished, its credentials are real and vaunted with the only loss being a close one to Penn State.

But I still have to question the concept here. If conferences are to have meaning (and I feel they should, that they are essential to the college football experience), what are the implications of a non-conference winner going into the field of four? what does such a circumstance do to the value of the Big Ten championship game: it was clear from the start that neither Wisconsin nor Penn State were going to the field of four.....so why play the championship?

The expansion we saw among conferences in the 1990s and into the 2000s was involved with expanding to 12 team leagues in order to hold a lucrative championship game. In the process, you often found an imbalance between the two conferences and one of the teams in a championship game often didn't belong....common scheduling became a thing of the past.

IMHO, I'd like to see conference champs automatically go into a play-off. The nation is large enough to have 8 major conferences with 12 teams each. 96 is a reasonable number for BCS membership. If conferences with 12 teams each played an 11 game round robin, a fair championship could be crowned and in case of a tie (two teams...automatically seeded, 3 or more....2 selected by formula) a championship game could be played.

8 league champions, all playing in a major new years day bowl....the 4 winners going on to east and west championship games, those two winners playing for the national championship.

no voting;no polls; no decision making...you win by the rules..just like MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL. The conferences keep their full weight and importance. and a true national champion, our of a field of 8, is awarded.
If you want to expand it to an 8 team playoff, why limit it to "league champions"


You would be defeating the purpose of expanding to 8 teams !
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Old 12-15-2016, 11:11 AM
 
Location: alabama.
2,322 posts, read 1,765,707 times
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i simply dont want the possibility of a 3 /4 or 5 loss team being considered a " national " champion ...would you be more happy if 8 & 4 florida had defeated BAMA and be there instead ..
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Old 12-15-2016, 11:17 AM
 
2,838 posts, read 1,780,744 times
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1. Provides no incentive to play Oklahoma on the road, Auburn on the road or USC at a neutral site. If its just win a conference title why take ANY risk with non-conference games.
2. Conferences aren't equal (Big12 Champ goes 1-2 in non-conference schedule). Divisions within conferences aren't equal (Wisconsin lost to UM and OSU, but goes to the title game???)
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Old 12-15-2016, 12:20 PM
 
4,022 posts, read 1,854,985 times
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With only 4 teams I don't think you can be overly concerned about conference champions. As it is at least one conference champ will be left out each and every year. If two teams are comparable, then conference champion sure carries some weight, but it is not nor should it be the only criteria used.

If you went to 8, THEN you could allow all conference champs to be in there, provided there weren't more than 8 eligible teams.

I think I went into some pretty specific guidelines concerning this idea awhile back.

You have certain eligibility requirements.

1) winning your conference title.
2) being a 1-loss team from a power 5 conference
3) being undefeated regardless of conference affiliation
4) being the highest ranked group of 5 team with no more than 1 loss.

Sometimes #3 will eliminate the need for #4, but not always.

In most years there are 8 teams or less that would be "eligible" under that set of criteria.

In some years there are more than 8, in which case you would simply take the 8 highest ranked teams from among the eligible teams. Some times that leaves out a conference champ, sometimes it may leave out the group of 5 team.

I posted what the 8 team playoff would have looked like going back over the last 7 or 8 seasons in this post.
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Old 12-15-2016, 12:26 PM
 
4,022 posts, read 1,854,985 times
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Also you must remember 2011. as an LSU fan I was sorely disappointed that they made us play Bama for the National Championship, but clearly Alabama was one of the best teams in the country. I just always felt like asking a team to beat Alabama twice in one season is a little unfair.

In your scenario Alabama wouldn't even had made the playoffs.

That's a big red flag in my mind.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,918 posts, read 6,552,644 times
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here's where I disagree with many of you: I find non-conference games almost meaningless. First off, they are early in the season and although they count, in many ways they resemble NFL pre-season games.....a time when teams are getting the kinks out playing real competition.

second, there is no rhyme or reason in non-conference scheduling. Some schools only schedule cupcakes so they can get extra games at home. There is no reasonable way to compare teams based on the non-conference teams they play.

also, if a conference were to play a round robin schedule (and I'm thinking 12 team conferences, 11 game round robin), the best team WILL emerge at the top. In the "good old days", the NL and AL had no divisions and had 8 teams each. The pennant winners went into the world series. There was no need to compare the two teams in light of the fact they played completely different competition. You won your league and you went to the world series.

As I noted before, no major professional sport......MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL....make any decisions as to who goes to the play-offs and whom they play; formula does all the work. Why not in college football? (I'll give March Madness a pass since 66 teams go into the field, making sure that everyone who deserves to be there (plus many that do not) are in the tournament). For college football, just like the 4 pro sports, we are best served by taking the human element out of it and letting the formula and structure fairly choose who goes to the play-offs. value judgements are meaningless, especially when you consider the teams that might be in question may well have had no opponent in common.

If a conference plays a round robin, we don't need wild cards.....you win it on the filed and in so doing, you make each and every conference race exciting.

of the powers of 2........2, 4, 8, 16, the best number is 8. It would allow, with some conference restructuring, to create 8 national conferences representing the whole US and would seed their champions automatically into the tournament. Four is too exclusive; 16 is unwieldy. 8 is baby bear, not too big, not too little, just right.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:54 AM
 
Location: alabama.
2,322 posts, read 1,765,707 times
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in my opinion there are not enuff top tier teams to expand to 8 yet .. look at what BAMA did to # 4 mich state last year .. look at what they did to Notre dame .. would teams 5/6/7/and 8 have done better ?
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:33 AM
 
2,838 posts, read 1,780,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadgates View Post
Also you must remember 2011. as an LSU fan I was sorely disappointed that they made us play Bama for the National Championship, but clearly Alabama was one of the best teams in the country. I just always felt like asking a team to beat Alabama twice in one season is a little unfair.

In your scenario Alabama wouldn't even had made the playoffs.

That's a big red flag in my mind.
8 team playoff much greater chance of this happening. I could easily see Big Ten #1 and #2 and SEC 1 and 2 in the same playoff.


You are right. It is tough as heck to beat the same team again.
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:09 PM
Status: "1st day of summer feels like fall" (set 27 days ago)
 
5,485 posts, read 3,221,555 times
Reputation: 2144
Ohio State and Penn State both were 7-1 co-champs of their division Penn State got the nod due to Big10 rules and under certain circumstances Ohio State would of gone if they would not of been so dominate these past several years ...Penn St. played bad early this season lost to Michigan big time. This reminds me of the Ohio State-Michigan 10-10 tie years ago and the Big10 commissioners gave the nod to OSU because they thought with Michigan's QB hurt the Big10 had a better chance to win the Rose Bowl that year with Ohio State.
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