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Old 01-10-2018, 03:26 PM
 
Location: alabama.
2,322 posts, read 1,767,465 times
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feel better now ... but you know what ... BAMA is still the champs ...

 
Old 01-10-2018, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,356 posts, read 11,566,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
My point all along was that the committee could have had Auburn play a Big Ten team. You say it could have been only Wisconsin, which is fine, even though I haven't taken the time to verify your reasoning. That would have been a great game, and allowed us to assess the relative quality of the SEC vs. the Big Ten top teams. You can't get it through your head that the committee should have provided that match-up given that Wisconsin was ranked much higher than UCF in their final rankings.
Penn State was the team, and I gave you links to both the SEC website and the CFB playoff Committee where they explain the bowl tie ins, so this isnt really about whether you can verify the information so lets not play that game.

And why exactly "should" the committee have provided an SEC vs Big 10 top match up ?

Quote:
I still believe the committee never dreamed that UCF would beat Auburn, but they definitely didn't want Auburn to get spanked by the likes of Wisconsin. If that would have happened, it would have called into question their entire SEC-centric championship round.
There was no SEC centric championship round.

Alabama was ranked #4 and faced #1 ACC champ and defending national champ Clemson, Georgia was #3 and played Big 12 Champ and #2 ranked Oklahoma.

The championship game happened because Alabama and Georgia where the 2 better teams.

Quote:
I'm just sick of the committee rewarding the SEC powers for their unwillingness to schedule home-and-away series with the powers of the other Power 5 conferences. SEC fans who argue about the superiority of the SEC are hypocrites when the SEC refuses to prove it during the regular season.
Using Ohio State for an example, How would Alabama or Georgia losing an away game in Norman, Oklahoma prove they are a better team ?????????

And on the other side of that argument, why doesnt an Alabama win in Atlanta vs FSU or in Dallas vs USC prove that they are a better team.

Bowl games are not home/Away games, they are neutral sites, why wouldnt kick off games be better measuring sticks.

And to be clear. Alabama has played home and away series(most recent with Penn State 2010/2011) and so has UGA(currently with Notre Dame)


I just dont understand your argument.

Quote:
Also, in the final analysis, Clemson beat only Auburn in the AP final top ten. Ohio State beat higher ranked Wisconsin and Penn State. Ohio State also beat 12th-ranked USC while Clemson beat 13th-ranked Miami, which lost the Orange Bowl on its home field to Wisconsin. Ohio State slaughtered 15th-ranked Michigan State. Why is Clemson ranked higher than Ohio State in the final AP poll?


It's a sham to think that Ohio State's loss to Iowa should offset the relative quality of its wins, given Clemson's loss to Syracuse, which wasn't even bowl eligible in 2017. Iowa in the Pinstripe Bowl beat Boston College.[/quote]

Your argument is "AP top 10 wins"

But if you stop pretending that there is an imaginary barrier there, you understand that both have 4 wins vs top 25 teams, and if we look at overall wins

Clemson has 9 wins vs team in the top 50
Ohio State only has 6.





Quote:
There was a lot of unwarranted SEC and Clemson worship this year IMO, evidenced by SEC fans laughingly refusing to admit the significance of Auburn's loss to UCF, given Auburn's regular season victories over both Georgia and Alabama.
By your logic, any team that beat Iowa(but didnt play Ohio State) is better than Ohio State. North Western and Purdue could both be better than Ohio State, we will never no.
 
Old 01-11-2018, 04:51 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,892,133 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
And why exactly "should" the committee have provided an SEC vs Big 10 top match up ?
Duh! Because the Big Ten team was higher ranked than UCF and it would have given the committee a chance to prove that its decision to include a second SEC team, with no signature victory, in the play-offs over a conference champion with much better relative victories was a good decision.

If Auburn defeats Penn State, good decision.

If Penn State wallops Auburn, a possibility, it would show that the committee was all wet about the superiority of the SEC this season.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
There was no SEC centric championship round.
A great example of SEC self-denial.

Having two SEC teams in the championship round, one that had beaten NO top 15 team in the final committee rankings and wasn't even a division champion, certainly was an SEC centric decision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Alabama was ranked #4 and faced #1 ACC champ and defending national champ Clemson, Georgia was #3 and played Big 12 Champ and #2 ranked Oklahoma.

The championship game happened because Alabama and Georgia where the 2 better teams.
Really? Yet both lost to Auburn which was defeated by UCF. As noted, Clemson wasn't as good as in 2016, as proven by its lack of signature victories relative to Ohio State.

The ONLY thing that gave this year's national championship any credibility was Georgia's victory over Oklahoma. And yet Mayfield was recovering from the flu and had, understandably, a miserable second half. Fortuitous IMO for Georgia, the SEC, and the committee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Using Ohio State for an example, How would Alabama or Georgia losing an away game in Norman, Oklahoma prove they are a better team ?????????
Exactly, if Alabama or Georgia lost in Norman, it would prove that they were NOT the better team. DUH!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
And on the other side of that argument, why doesnt an Alabama win in Atlanta vs FSU or in Dallas vs USC prove that they are a better team.

Bowl games are not home/Away games, they are neutral sites, why wouldnt kick off games be better measuring sticks.
Playing on a neutral site is not as challenging as playing on the opponent's field. Surely you must understand this. Neutral site, non-conference match-ups may become the norm in the future just because Alabama's refusal to schedule home-and-away games against perennial national powers is another advantage given the committee's failure to punish it for its relatively weak scheduling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
And to be clear. Alabama has played home and away series(most recent with Penn State 2010/2011) and so has UGA(currently with Notre Dame)


I just dont understand your argument.
Good point about UGA/Notre Dame. But Alabama scheduled Penn State when it was still reeling from the Paterno scandal, and that was SIX YEARS ago. Pathetic. What's so hard to understand about the desirability of home-and-away scheduling among the nation's most powerful teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Your argument is "AP top 10 wins"

But if you stop pretending that there is an imaginary barrier there, you understand that both have 4 wins vs top 25 teams, and if we look at overall wins

Clemson has 9 wins vs team in the top 50
Ohio State only has 6..
Right. Top ten teams are measurably tougher teams then top 25 let alone top 50 teams. Your logic awards teams for dodging the nation's powerhouse teams.

Ridiculous.

If the committee continues to ignore top ten competition, especially home-and-away competition, the NCAA non-conference competition will become much more watered down.

BTW, nobody talks about Georgia getting spanked 42-17 at Auburn after its home victory over South Carolina. Yet Ohio State's dismal Iowa road loss occurred the week after its much tougher tussle with Penn State.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
By your logic, any team that beat Iowa(but didnt play Ohio State) is better than Ohio State. North Western and Purdue could both be better than Ohio State, we will never no.
Not my logic at all. I explained why Ohio State had much more impressive victories this season than Clemson. All your ridiculous obfuscation about top 25 and top 50 victories doesn't change anything. Victories over teams ranked 25 to 50 are relatively meaningless to most fans, but not you.

BTW, Ohio State beat Michigan State, 48-3, which beat Washington State, 42-17, in its bowl game. Michigan State was 16 and Washington State 18 in the final committee poll.
 
Old 01-11-2018, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,405 posts, read 8,393,387 times
Reputation: 7010
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post

The ONLY thing that gave this year's national championship any credibility was Georgia's victory over Oklahoma. And yet Mayfield was recovering from the flu and had, understandably, a miserable second half. Fortuitous IMO for Georgia, the SEC, and the committee.
That reminds me of the Texas-Alabama BCS NCG in the 2010 Rose Bowl, when Colt McCoy was hurt on the first drive & could not play the rest of the game (pinched nerve after a clean hit in the back). Then in comes Garret Gilbert, an untried true freshman who had only three or four series of game time snaps all season long. The totally unprepared Gilbert was a bumbling turnover machine to begin with, then brought the Horns back to within 3 points with 6 minutes to go before turning the ball over again twice to let the Tide score two TDs easily in the last 2 minutes to pump up the final to 37-21.

Otherwise Texas wins that game by at least two TDs with a healthy McCoy for Mack Brown's 2nd national championship. Bama fans are still in denial about that, but should be thanking their lucky stars.

Tale of the stats shows what a close game it was, with the freshman's turnovers being the difference:

http://stats.texassports.com/sports/....html#GAME.TEM

That was the beginning of Saban's dominance of the decade - an amazing accomplishment no matter how it was done. Somewhat similar to OU's great run in the 1950s. Bama's freshman QB looks awesome, and he'll bring home a couple more championships before he leaves for the NFL.

Mack Brown just mailed it in after that Rose Bowl and look what happened to Texas - still trying to dig out from that hole he left us in. Oh well, so it goes.

Last edited by ScoPro; 01-11-2018 at 10:29 AM..
 
Old 01-11-2018, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,356 posts, read 11,566,295 times
Reputation: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Duh! Because the Big Ten team was higher ranked than UCF and it would have given the committee a chance to prove that its decision to include a second SEC team, with no signature victory, in the play-offs over a conference champion with much better relative victories was a good decision.

If Auburn defeats Penn State, good decision.

If Penn State wallops Auburn, a possibility, it would show that the committee was all wet about the superiority of the SEC this season.
But your argument seems to be that winning makes it a good decision and losing makes it a bad one. But obviously you dont really believe in that logic as both Alabama and Georgia beat the #1 and #2 teams.

But you are talking about relatively similarly ranked teams. unless its a straight blow out, a win or lose proves nothing.

Your logic seems to simply be pro big 10/ Anti-SEC and it is clearly clouding your judgement.








Quote:
A great example of SEC self-denial.

Having two SEC teams in the championship round, one that had beaten NO top 15 team in the final committee rankings and wasn't even a division champion, certainly was an SEC centric decision.
So then the committee made a mistake last year when they included an Ohio State team with the same problem and then got destroyed by Clemson

How about 2014, when Ohio State only beat 2 ranked teams, one being in the conference title game.



Quote:
Really? Yet both lost to Auburn which was defeated by UCF.

The ONLY thing that gave this year's national championship any credibility was Georgia's victory over Oklahoma. And yet Mayfield was recovering from the flu and had, understandably, a miserable second half. Fortuitous IMO for Georgia, the SEC, and the committee.
Again, your argument isnt making sense. If you are claiming UCF is better than Auburn,Alabama and UGA, then you are making a transitive property argument which would then apply to the entire field meaning

Alabama>UGA>Oklahoma>Ohio State

Your argument about Oklahoma is laughable seeing as Alabama was down what 5 starting players due to injuries when they played Auburn.

Quote:
As noted, Clemson wasn't as good as in 2016, as proven by its lack of signature victories relative to Ohio State.
No, that has to do with the ranking system, not how good the teams themselves are unless you are talking about margin of victory.

If you are not, then by your logic, if Wisconsin had won vs OSU, they would not have deserved to get in.

a 3 loss Auburn had a better resume than them.

Quote:
Exactly, if Alabama or Georgia lost in Norman, it would prove that they were NOT the better team. DUH!!!
So then doesnt that prove that Ohio State wasnt ?????



Quote:
Playing on a neutral site is not as challenging as playing on the opponent's field. Surely you must understand this. Neutral site, non-conference match-ups may become the norm in the future just because Alabama's refusal to schedule home-and-away games against perennial national powers is another advantage given the committee's failure to punish it for its relatively weak scheduling.



Good point about UGA/Notre Dame. But Alabama scheduled Penn State when it was still reeling from the Paterno scandal, and that was SIX YEARS ago. Pathetic. What's so hard to understand about the desirability of home-and-away scheduling among the nation's most powerful teams?
1. Bowl games are not home games with the exception of Miami getting to play in the Orange Bowl, so how a team performs in a random away game means nothing in that context.

2. The Penn State scandal did not happen until after the Alabama home and away series was over(November 2011 to be exact)

3. The desirability of Home and Away series has nothing to do with the context of the discussion since not a single playoff game is held on a home field.

This is a further flawed argument because of the "home" aspect.

You are basically arguing that an Alabama victory in Tuscaloosa vs Ohio State would be a better win than an Alabama victory in Dallas vs Ohio State all because at some point in the future, Alabama would play Ohio State in Columbus.





Quote:
Right. Top ten teams are measurably tougher teams then top 25 let alone top 50 teams. Your logic awards teams for dodging the nation's powerhouse teams.

Ridiculous.

If the committee continues to ignore top ten competition, especially home-and-away competition, the NCAA non-conference competition will become much more watered down.
Why top 10 ??? Why not top 5.Why does your imaginary cut off matter more ?



Quote:
BTW, nobody talks about Georgia getting spanked 42-17 at Auburn after its home victory over South Carolina. Yet Ohio State's dismal Iowa road loss occurred the week after its much tougher tussle with Penn State.
Thats your fault. You are the one who puts emphasis on Conference championships, so Georgia gets a "redemption pass" for beating Auburn in the SEC championship.



Quote:
Not my logic at all. I explained why Ohio State had much more impressive victories this season than Clemson. All your ridiculous obfuscation about top 25 and top 50 victories doesn't change anything. Victories over teams ranked 25 to 50 are relatively meaningless to most fans, but not you.
It goes to the quality of the entire schedule, not just 3 or 4 teams. despite not playing as many top 10 teams, Clemson and Ohio State's opponents have the same number of victories.

Quote:
]BTW, Ohio State beat Michigan State, 48-3, which beat Washington State, 42-17, in its bowl game. Michigan State was 16 and Washington State 18 in the final committee poll.
Im not sure why you are mentioning this.

Do you think Washington State is a great team or something ?
 
Old 01-11-2018, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,356 posts, read 11,566,295 times
Reputation: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post

Otherwise Texas wins that game by at least two TDs with a healthy McCoy for Mack Brown's 2nd national championship. Bama fans are still in denial about that, but should be thanking their lucky stars.
Your argument is that Bama fans have to "thank the stars" for Texas' mistakes, but not that Texas fans should do the same for Bama's

Lets remember that Texas' first 3 points came from a horrible fake punt that was intercepted and gave them the ball at the Alabama 36 yard line.

On the kick off, Julio Jones fumbled the ball and gave them the ball and gave them the ball on the Alabama 30.

Lets not pretend like Texas had driven down the field and was running all over the place, they werent. Mean while the Alabama QB was playing with 2 cracked ribs.

That game was "lucky" on both sides at best.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
8,405 posts, read 8,393,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Your argument is that Bama fans have to "thank the stars" for Texas' mistakes, but not that Texas fans should do the same for Bama's

Lets remember that Texas' first 3 points came from a horrible fake punt that was intercepted and gave them the ball at the Alabama 36 yard line.

On the kick off, Julio Jones fumbled the ball and gave them the ball and gave them the ball on the Alabama 30.

Lets not pretend like Texas had driven down the field and was running all over the place, they werent. Mean while the Alabama QB was playing with 2 cracked ribs.

That game was "lucky" on both sides at best.
The "lucky stars" referred to the hit that pinched McCoy's throwing arm nerve.


Denying that the loss of the best QB in college football that season and being replaced by a freshman turnover machine didn't change the outcome of that game is downright foolish. McCoy & Shipley would've torched that Tide defense like they did everybody else. Yeah, couldda, woulda, shoulda..... but it's true.


Bama deserved the win by taking advantage of Texas' mistakes, UT didn't.


Mack Brown came under heavy criticism from our fans for not having a prepared backup - and it had been noted in the latter half of the season ("Why is Colt still in there?"). All season long he played McCoy 4 quarters to pump up his stats for the Heisman and virtually ignored Gilbert (who saw the field about as much as my dead mother did). Of course Brown was famous for mishandling quarterbacks (Applewhite, Simms, VY, McCoy, Gilbert), so it wasn't particularly surprising.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,446 posts, read 10,924,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
...I explained why Ohio State had much more impressive victories this season than Clemson...
I wanted Ohio State to be in the playoffs so Clemson could humiliate them again this year.
 
Old 01-12-2018, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,356 posts, read 11,566,295 times
Reputation: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
The "lucky stars" referred to the hit that pinched McCoy's throwing arm nerve.


Denying that the loss of the best QB in college football that season and being replaced by a freshman turnover machine didn't change the outcome of that game is downright foolish. McCoy & Shipley would've torched that Tide defense like they did everybody else. Yeah, couldda, woulda, shoulda..... but it's true.
You believe he would have "touched" the Tide, there is no proof to support that claim. Especially considering what Nebraska did to them in the Big 12 Championship


Quote:
Bama deserved the win by taking advantage of Texas' mistakes, UT didn't.
Of course they didn't they lost LOL.


Quote:
Mack Brown came under heavy criticism from our fans for not having a prepared backup - and it had been noted in the latter half of the season ("Why is Colt still in there?"). All season long he played McCoy 4 quarters to pump up his stats for the Heisman and virtually ignored Gilbert (who saw the field about as much as my dead mother did). Of course Brown was famous for mishandling quarterbacks (Applewhite, Simms, VY, McCoy, Gilbert), so it wasn't particularly surprising.
Colt McCoy doesnt play defense.

Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson had 250 years on the ground. Bama's Qb with cracked ribs threw the ball a total of 12 times.

You keep trying to claim you had a bad QB when on the opposite side Alabama didnt have one at all.

the 2 biggest plays that put Texas into scoring position werent forced errors by the Texas defense, but rather a kick off fumble and a 4th down fake punt from Bama's own 30.

Trying to pretend like Alabama was a full strength or didnt have the same turnovers that gave UT the early lead in the first place is down right juvenile within the context of this discussion.
 
Old 01-13-2018, 01:59 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,892,133 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Grinder View Post
I wanted Ohio State to be in the playoffs so Clemson could humiliate them again this year.
Ohio State has had its issues in the last two years, certainly with its offensive coaching in the 2016-2017 season, and the transition to the new offensive coaches in the 2017-18 season. And Deshaun Watson obviously was an exceptional quarterback talent with no equal at Clemson this year.

Clemson's loss to Syracuse suggests to any objective observer that this was not the same Clemson powerhouse team as in the 2016-17 season. Given Ohio State's win in the Cotton Bowl, it's possible a match-up with Clemson this season might have been much more competitive. Certainly, as already noted, Ohio State clearly had more impressive victories this past season in the final analysis than Clemson.

Personally, I think Ohio State has suffered due to J.T. Barrett's limitations as a passer. Given the Ohio State's recruiting excellence, there isn't much of a talent gap against any team, including Clemson.

With likely a much better passer as quarterback next season, Ohio State may resemble the 2014-15 national championship team much more than in any year since the championship season. Urban Meyer is nobody's fool. I suspect he's learned much from the problems of the last two years, and certainly has sought unsuccessfully to regain the deep passing attack served up by Cardale Jones in the 2014-15 championship run. Many Ohio State fans wonder if Barrett hadn't been injured, if Ohio State would have won the 2015 championship game. And, yes, like Clemson's Watson in 2016-17, Ezekiel Elliott and Joey Bosa were exceptional talents powering Ohio State's 2014-15 championship season; I'm doubtful if the 2018-19 Buckeyes will have a comparable offensive talent, but some consider Nick Bosa to be more talented than his older brother.

Hopefully, Ohio State will have a shot at Alabama and/or Clemson in the coming season.

Clemson can't live forever off its 2017 national championship, any more than Ohio State can off its 2015 championship.

Last edited by WRnative; 01-13-2018 at 02:13 AM..
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