U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Should Harbaugh be fired?
Yes 2 8.70%
No 21 91.30%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-02-2018, 03:56 PM
 
2,858 posts, read 1,802,908 times
Reputation: 1257

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
How is Michigan no longer a premiere program? They had some of the top recruiting classes under Brady Hoke. How does a non-premiere program get the No. 2 overall recruiting class in college football?

https://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...defense-101916
And 14th by 247 sports composite rankings this year. There are only so many trees you can climb and high school coaches you can hire.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-02-2018, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,414 posts, read 26,465,146 times
Reputation: 11845
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
And 14th by 247 sports composite rankings this year. There are only so many trees you can climb and high school coaches you can hire.
And No. 5 the year before that. I don't think one recruiting class determines whether a program is "premiere" or not. Reputation, deep pockets, and institutional commitment matter a lot. It's more a matter of when Michigan will turn things around rather than if.

It's the same way that people who grew up in the 70s and now people who've grown up in the 2010s think of Alabama as a premiere football program. But if you grew up in the 90s, it's still hard to shake your image of Alabama as a scandal-ridden program that had been consigned to college football irrelevance. It was all about Nebraska's Big Red Machine and the Florida teams then. I think Michigan is down now but will see a re-emergence at some point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-02-2018, 04:23 PM
 
2,858 posts, read 1,802,908 times
Reputation: 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
And No. 5 the year before that. I don't think one recruiting class determines whether a program is "premiere" or not. Reputation, deep pockets, and institutional commitment matter a lot. It's more a matter of when Michigan will turn things around rather than if.

It's the same way that people who grew up in the 70s and now people who've grown up in the 2010s think of Alabama as a premiere football program. But if you grew up in the 90s, it's still hard to shake your image of Alabama as a scandal-ridden program that had been consigned to college football irrelevance. It was all about Nebraska's Big Red Machine and the Florida teams then. I think Michigan is down now but will see a re-emergence at some point.
It's not uncommon for a perceived "great hire" as he was labeled to lure the elite caliber of recruit. They have ZERO elite recruits this season that isn't typical of premier program. This to me is the sign of the direction of the program. Honestly with Urban Meyers national recruiting presence I thought they would garner the attention of more top 10 Ohio kids- but that hasn't really been the case instead they are losing top Michigan guys to Ohio.

Michigan has been more bark : Mike Hart "little brother" Hoke "Ohio" and Harbaugh antics than bite since 1997 with the exception being 2006. It's been a great promotion scheme over the years.

I guess my definition of premier is winning titles at the very least conference titles. Okay let's cut the some slack but How many conference titles does Michigan have this century?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-02-2018, 04:41 PM
 
5,116 posts, read 4,657,341 times
Reputation: 4380
I don't think that the University of Michigan can afford to fire Jim Harbaugh. His $9 million per year contract doesn't run out until 2021. If he got canned right now, Michigan would be paying Harbaugh $36 million over the next four years to not coach football. I'd say old Jimbo is safe for at least two more seasons.

BTW the local Detroit sports radio has just been ripping Harbaugh today. One interesting point brought up is that his assistant coaches have an enormous turnover rate. That's not the sign of a successful program.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-02-2018, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,414 posts, read 26,465,146 times
Reputation: 11845
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I guess my definition of premier is winning titles at the very least conference titles. Okay let's cut the some slack but How many conference titles does Michigan have this century?
My definition of a premiere program is one that can garner national attention notwithstanding subpar results on the field. They have a long tradition of success that's translated into a national brand that doesn't really fade during down periods. Texas, IMO, is one such program. They have the most profitable football program in the nation even after having lost 6 games this season, including a humiliating loss to a lowly Maryland team at home. They haven't sniffed a national title since that fantastic Rose Bowl victory and they had the 31st ranked recruiting class last year. However, it doesn't matter that much because the boosters, the university and the tradition all maintain the relevance of their brand.

https://247sports.com/college/texas/...ation-52674979

Michigan is another. Even though Harbaugh has disappointed so far, the fact they could land Harbaugh, a pretty successful NFL coach, says a lot. Granted, he has the UM connection, but coaches of his caliber don't wind up at schools like Texas Tech or even Florida. Schools like USC, Texas, Michigan and Notre Dame all have the cachet and the financial wherewithal to at least be in the running for those types of coaches. If Pete Carroll ever gets run out of Seattle and contemplates a return to the college game, I'd say those four schools would all be on his short list (well, maybe not SC).

So that's the essential difference between a premiere program and a more flash-in-the-pan program like Oregon whose brand rose and fell with Chip Kelly. I have confidence that Texas will build the best facilities and be in a position to hire the best coaches if/when they become available. I can't say the same about Oregon or even Clemson who more or less seem to have lucked their way into the situation they now have with Dabo Swinney.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2018, 08:19 AM
 
2,858 posts, read 1,802,908 times
Reputation: 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
My definition of a premiere program is one that can garner national attention notwithstanding subpar results on the field. They have a long tradition of success that's translated into a national brand that doesn't really fade during down periods. Texas, IMO, is one such program. They have the most profitable football program in the nation even after having lost 6 games this season, including a humiliating loss to a lowly Maryland team at home. They haven't sniffed a national title since that fantastic Rose Bowl victory and they had the 31st ranked recruiting class last year. However, it doesn't matter that much because the boosters, the university and the tradition all maintain the relevance of their brand.

https://247sports.com/college/texas/...ation-52674979

Michigan is another. Even though Harbaugh has disappointed so far, the fact they could land Harbaugh, a pretty successful NFL coach, says a lot. Granted, he has the UM connection, but coaches of his caliber don't wind up at schools like Texas Tech or even Florida. Schools like USC, Texas, Michigan and Notre Dame all have the cachet and the financial wherewithal to at least be in the running for those types of coaches. If Pete Carroll ever gets run out of Seattle and contemplates a return to the college game, I'd say those four schools would all be on his short list (well, maybe not SC).

So that's the essential difference between a premiere program and a more flash-in-the-pan program like Oregon whose brand rose and fell with Chip Kelly. I have confidence that Texas will build the best facilities and be in a position to hire the best coaches if/when they become available. I can't say the same about Oregon or even Clemson who more or less seem to have lucked their way into the situation they now have with Dabo Swinney.
Harbaugh was an alumnus. He wanted back into the college game and they waved 9M a year in his face. He was brought back to Restore Michigan- awaken the rich tradition the program has. He was trying resurrect the program like he did at Stanford.

I'd say Michigan has tradition that many programs don't have, their tradition extends way back they lead the OSU series because of the leather helmet days. Even considering their tradition they have ONE National title since 1948. When does actually winning something become part of the premier equation?

And really There is nothing premier about the program that last two decades. They've fumbled hirings, they've lost to their main rival to the point the rivalry is suffering.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2018, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,414 posts, read 26,465,146 times
Reputation: 11845
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
I'd say Michigan has tradition that many programs don't have, their tradition extends way back they lead the OSU series because of the leather helmet days. Even considering their tradition they have ONE National title since 1948. When does actually winning something become part of the premier equation?

And really There is nothing premier about the program that last two decades. They've fumbled hirings, they've lost to their main rival to the point the rivalry is suffering.
But you could say the same thing about Ohio State's program during the 30 years between 1970 and 2002. Most people remember OSU from the 80s and 90s as the standard-bearer for mediocrity with losses to subpar programs in subpar Bowl games. OSU's title drought was even longer than Michigan's current title drought. Yet people still considered them a premiere program based on games only our fathers and grandfathers remembered.

I wouldn't say "nothing" has been premiere about Michigan's program in the past 20 years. They've won a few conference championships in that time and have been in the Top 2 in the nation with some strong recruiting classes in between.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2018, 09:09 AM
 
2,858 posts, read 1,802,908 times
Reputation: 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But you could say the same thing about Ohio State's program during the 30 years between 1970 and 2002. Most people remember OSU from the 80s and 90s as the standard-bearer for mediocrity with losses to subpar programs in subpar Bowl games. OSU's title drought was even longer than Michigan's current title drought. Yet people still considered them a premiere program based on games only our fathers and grandfathers remembered.

I wouldn't say "nothing" has been premiere about Michigan's program in the past 20 years. They've won a few conference championships in that time and have been in the Top 2 in the nation with some strong recruiting classes in between.
71-01
Definately not historically great not a premier program during that time but comparing Michigans recent slide to it is laughable
13 Big Ten titles
3 Heisman Trophies
2 Rose Bowls (73,97), Orange Bowl (77), Fiesta (84), Cotton Bowl (87), Sugar (99)

Ohio state has won 7 national titles in the same span that Michigan shared a title
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
8,122 posts, read 4,158,886 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So that's the essential difference between a premiere program and a more flash-in-the-pan program like Oregon whose brand rose and fell with Chip Kelly. I have confidence that Texas will build the best facilities and be in a position to hire the best coaches if/when they become available. I can't say the same about Oregon or even Clemson who more or less seem to have lucked their way into the situation they now have with Dabo Swinney.
Clemson has won two national titles and has won the most ACC titles, two more than FSU.

Clemson has great facilities, a great campus and great setting next to a lake and Blue Ridge mountains. I'm not sure how Clemson 'lucked' its way into anything. It is in a good recruiting area and Dabo is a good recruiter.

Oregon is not in a good recruiting area so comparing Clemson to Oregon does not make any sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
8,122 posts, read 4,158,886 times
Reputation: 3092
People always make Texas out as a 'blueblood' but it has only won 3 Big 12 titles, and that is only 1 more than Kansas State and Baylor. Oklahoma has won 11 Big 12 titles.

Texas has only won 1 title in the BCS and playoff eras. The only 3 claimed titles were in the poll era.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top