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Old 11-26-2018, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,198 posts, read 11,339,303 times
Reputation: 2168

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I frankly just cannot comprehend the folks that bemoan Notre Dame's rightful inclusion in the playoffs "because they don't have to play a conference championship game."

First off, let's stop pretending that the "conference championship games" were somehow an age-old grand, proud tradition of college football. Conference championship games were very much added in as a new revenue stream/source. Am I the only one who remembers that it wasn't too long ago that a Big 10 didn't have a championship game? Were Big 10 fans at that point arguing against high rankings for Big 10 teams because they "didn't have a championship game?" Give me a break.

And amen to the poster a few posts back who said who cares about the conference...its the best four teams we are after. For instance:

Does anyone in their right mind honestly think that if Northwestern beats Ohio State in the Big 10 championship game that as the Big 10 champion Northwestern would deserve a playoff spot over Notre Dame? Give me a break! Oh, and even if Ohio State beats Northwestern (just like Notre Dame did - but at Northwestern to boot)...would we then just ignore that they got pummeled by a 6-6 Purdue team and barely survived by a point against a woeful Maryland team and say they deserve a higher seed than Notre Dame "because they won a conference championship game"??? Comeon...you have to check/leave your logic at the door for that.

Further, let's stop pretending that this 13th data point means really anything when most of the Power 5 schools play one of their 13 against an FCS opponent which is like an MLB team playing a series against a Triple A team. Notre Dame plays no FCS opponent which basically ensures a comparative schedule.

Again, I do not see what is so hard to grasp in the notion that we are after the four best teams/programs. Who cares what conference they are in? Washington may win the PAC-12 conference championship...does anyone honestly think they are a top four program? If Texas wins the Big-12 championship, should we say Texas is a top four program? And does anyone HONESTLY feel that UCF would beat Notre Dame, Clemson, Alabama, etc.? Come on.

This is college football: there aren't birthrights handed out due to conference affiliation. Its the best four teams/programs we are after. Notre Dame clearly is one of those four. Henceforth, they will be playoff'ing. Its really not that complicated beyond that.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:35 AM
 
929 posts, read 297,282 times
Reputation: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
I frankly just cannot comprehend the folks that bemoan Notre Dame's rightful inclusion in the playoffs "because they don't have to play a conference championship game."

First off, let's stop pretending that the "conference championship games" were somehow an age-old grand, proud tradition of college football. Conference championship games were very much added in as a new revenue stream/source. Am I the only one who remembers that it wasn't too long ago that a Big 10 didn't have a championship game? Were Big 10 fans at that point arguing against high rankings for Big 10 teams because they "didn't have a championship game?" Give me a break.

And amen to the poster a few posts back who said who cares about the conference...its the best four teams we are after. For instance:

Does anyone in their right mind honestly think that if Northwestern beats Ohio State in the Big 10 championship game that as the Big 10 champion Northwestern would deserve a playoff spot over Notre Dame? Give me a break! Oh, and even if Ohio State beats Northwestern (just like Notre Dame did - but at Northwestern to boot)...would we then just ignore that they got pummeled by a 6-6 Purdue team and barely survived by a point against a woeful Maryland team and say they deserve a higher seed than Notre Dame "because they won a conference championship game"??? Comeon...you have to check/leave your logic at the door for that.

Further, let's stop pretending that this 13th data point means really anything when most of the Power 5 schools play one of their 13 against an FCS opponent which is like an MLB team playing a series against a Triple A team. Notre Dame plays no FCS opponent which basically ensures a comparative schedule.

Again, I do not see what is so hard to grasp in the notion that we are after the four best teams/programs. Who cares what conference they are in? Washington may win the PAC-12 conference championship...does anyone honestly think they are a top four program? If Texas wins the Big-12 championship, should we say Texas is a top four program? And does anyone HONESTLY feel that UCF would beat Notre Dame, Clemson, Alabama, etc.? Come on.

This is college football: there aren't birthrights handed out due to conference affiliation. Its the best four teams/programs we are after. Notre Dame clearly is one of those four. Henceforth, they will be playoff'ing. Its really not that complicated beyond that.
Well said. Iím not a Notre Dame fan at all, but people get carried away with the whole conference affiliation thing and now suddenly are making these conference championship games into overkill as though somehow they are auto qualifiers like they are in basketball. Notre Dame is solidly in and proven themselves more than some of these other contenders in terms of the competition.
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:03 PM
 
2,765 posts, read 3,337,745 times
Reputation: 5480
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7express View Post
I know it's different teams, but that's funny seeing as the same team that beat Alabama by double figures last year lost to that "joke" UCF team in their bowl game .

And I don't think it matters, as Memphis over UCF is going to be my upset pick of the week, so they'll be done one way or the other.
Well the thing is they didn't play Auburn in a game that matters. It was also only a 7 point loss not double figures. Auburn had key players that were about to enter the NFL draft. Getting hurt in a meaningless game would not have been smart so there was a real lack of effort. I watched the game and had watched almost every one of Auburn's games last season and I can tell you with 100% certainty that there was a significant lack of motivation and effort. UCF on the other hand were in a new years six bowl (peach bowl), were undefeated, were playing a nationally recognized team and had something to try to prove. They had a reason to be motivated. So basically you had one team that had just lost their goal for the season playing a team that had an axe to grind. Had Auburn and UCF been playing in a meaningful game such as a playoff game, Auburn would have beaten the snot out of them. Realistically, bowl games outside of the playoff games are a joke. You see it year after year where big name teams with players about to enter the NFL draft more or less don't show up and lose to a team they would otherwise wipe the field with. It would suit me just fine if they would expand the playoff and do away with all the stupid meaningless bowl games.

With UCF's quarterback out, I am also expecting Memphis to beat them. I see UCF going away and returning to mediocrity very soon like the other little teams that have a few good years within their conference. However, I would like to see them somehow end up in the playoffs so a major team could play them in a game that matters and wax them so the debate would end.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Murrica
3,156 posts, read 1,803,454 times
Reputation: 2164
Quote:
Originally Posted by zumaboy View Post
Hmm, at best that is an overstatement of history. Are you a Chicken fan by chance?
I'd say you should go read about all the crap they were pulling back in the day. And Danny Ford was fully complicit.

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Old 11-26-2018, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Murrica
3,156 posts, read 1,803,454 times
Reputation: 2164
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7express View Post
2) This year they beat 2 division winners (Northwestern & Pitt), a third that tied for a division (Michigan), and played and beat a 9 win Syracuse team. That could very well be the toughest schedule in the country...
Pitt 7-5. Currently unranked. Lost to Penn State 51-6, Lost to UCF 45-14. But played ND tough, losing 19-14. No wins against currently ranked teams.

Northwestern 8-4. Lost to Duke and Akron.
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Old 11-26-2018, 04:53 PM
 
9,426 posts, read 7,101,948 times
Reputation: 12202
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
I'd say you should go read about all the crap they were pulling back in the day. And Danny Ford was fully complicit.

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The early 80's violations were severe and Ford knew about those. Though, it was more quantity than quality. There were like 14 or 15 severe violations, the rest was somewhat piddly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.1545905b1805


There's the list. For the time.. Some of that is pedestrian stuff. I mean, before we start talking death penalty, you have to compare that against the university that got the death penalty, SMU.. And there's a world of difference.


The ones that are huge there are the ones where you see "Cash". There's other things that.. The rules are more clearly defined on now..


like this..



Quote:
During January or February 1981, a former assistant football coach mailed a pair of basketball shoes to two prospective student-athletes;

Quote:
In February 1981, the football coach offered to help find a job for a prospective student-athlete's mother;
Quote:
In November 1980, an assistant football coach provided a prospective student-athlete several articles of clothing at no cost to the young man;

Quote:
In the fall of 1979, a former assistant football coach gave a white sport shirt to a prospective student-athlete;

I mean, they're violations.. Don't get me wrong, but.. These violations and far worse were pretty common in the 80's and 90's. Some of them, I'm shocked are wrong.. If someone is visiting the school, you wouldn't think it would be a violation to give them a school t-shirt. But... Think a little more on it, you see why it is.


They got hit with another round in the late 80's, which is what wound up costing Ford his job. If I'm not mistaken, he got whacked for a few violations while at Arkansas as well.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Murrica
3,156 posts, read 1,803,454 times
Reputation: 2164
Danny Ford was a loose cannon. When Clemson went back under NCAA investigation, the death penalty was certainly an option. I have a lot of friends who are Clemson fans and many of them thought it would happen.
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:22 AM
 
3,723 posts, read 3,883,415 times
Reputation: 2779
Folks, it's safe to assume that EVERY top college program in football and basketball has hidden or swept under the rug NCAA violations. Case in point Reuben Foster at Alabama. You really believe he waited until he got the NFL to act like a jackass? No sense in talking about Clemson back in the 1980s.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,247 posts, read 640,511 times
Reputation: 745
Also, IMO I think the committee would want to keep Ohio State out of the playoffs because of what happened off the field during the season with the Urban Meyer scandal, although they won't admit it.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:38 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,883,854 times
Reputation: 4101
Assuming Alabama beats Georgia, the real toss-up for the fourth play-off spot is Oklahoma vs. Ohio State, assuming both win their championship games. Many, including the oddsmakers, favor Ohio State.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...l-predictions/

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/col...ayoff-oklahoma

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ff/2107729002/

There's a possibility that the play-off committee would prefer to give Dwayne Haskins, who no holds the Big Ten record for most passing TDs in a single season and for most passing yardage in a single season, a chance to perform in the play-offs, sort of like how McDonald's loves to tout NBA greats who played in the McDonald's high school all-star game. Haskins bested both Drew Breas and Russell Wilson in the most passing TD single season record totals.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...er-season.html

Kyler Murray isn't even atop the Oklahoma record books in this category.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...er-season.html

If Ohio State smashes Northwestern, it ups its odds even more.
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