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Old 01-11-2019, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
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If a team isn't in top 4 at the end of the regular season, how can it make the case it is the best in the country even if it wins the playoffs.

The conference championship games are already essentially a playoff first round. Miami last year and perhaps UNC 3 years ago could have made the playoffs if they had beat Clemson in the ACC title game. If Clemson had lost to SC, or Pitt in the ACC title game, it probably would not have made the playoffs this year.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:40 AM
 
2,765 posts, read 3,330,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
If a team isn't in top 4 at the end of the regular season, how can it make the case it is the best in the country even if it wins the playoffs.

The conference championship games are already essentially a playoff first round. Miami last year and perhaps UNC 3 years ago could have made the playoffs if they had beat Clemson in the ACC title game. If Clemson had lost to SC, or Pitt in the ACC title game, it probably would not have made the playoffs this year.
What about when the time comes where we have Clemson at 12-0 and Florida State or Miami at 12-0 and two of them meet in the ACC championship game. Say Miami beats Clemson 24-21 resulting in Clemson getting left out of the playoffs. In the playoffs you end up with a 10-2 Big 10 champion instead of a 12-1 Clemson even though they end the season ranked number 4. Then in the first round of the playoffs that 10-2 Big 10 champion gets routed by Miami 56-3 and clearly Clemson was far superior and should have been in the playoffs over the team that made it simply because they were a conference champion. Would you still have the same point of view? That will without a doubt happen if you give automatic bids to conference champions.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
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In my view, if a team doesn't win its conference, it has no claim that it is the best in the nation. A lot of non-conference winners are capable of winning the title like Alabama last year but it seems like they are getting a mulligan with a playoff spot.

There won't be any automatic bids because at least one P5 conference will get left out every year. If Pitt had beat Clemson, Ohio State would have got the 4th spot.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 01-11-2019 at 10:00 AM..
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Murrica
3,138 posts, read 1,792,147 times
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Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
What about when the time comes where we have Clemson at 12-0 and Florida State or Miami at 12-0 and two of them meet in the ACC championship game. Say Miami beats Clemson 24-21 resulting in Clemson getting left out of the playoffs. In the playoffs you end up with a 10-2 Big 10 champion instead of a 12-1 Clemson even though they end the season ranked number 4. Then in the first round of the playoffs that 10-2 Big 10 champion gets routed by Miami 56-3 and clearly Clemson was far superior and should have been in the playoffs over the team that made it simply because they were a conference champion. Would you still have the same point of view? That will without a doubt happen if you give automatic bids to conference champions.
That's why an NFL type of system is best. 3 of the 4 games in the wild card round were won by the visiting team. However, as long as human emotion, versus wins and losses, rules the day, you end up with what we have. I'm not in favor of automatic qualification, but think it's a valuable metric to determine placement. The exception to that is when teams meet in the regular season and the championship game. Like Texas/Oklahoma.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
6,536 posts, read 4,487,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
What about when the time comes where we have Clemson at 12-0 and Florida State or Miami at 12-0 and two of them meet in the ACC championship game. Say Miami beats Clemson 24-21 resulting in Clemson getting left out of the playoffs. In the playoffs you end up with a 10-2 Big 10 champion instead of a 12-1 Clemson even though they end the season ranked number 4. Then in the first round of the playoffs that 10-2 Big 10 champion gets routed by Miami 56-3 and clearly Clemson was far superior and should have been in the playoffs over the team that made it simply because they were a conference champion. Would you still have the same point of view? That will without a doubt happen if you give automatic bids to conference champions.

That would be impossible since Miami & Florida State are in the same division meaning they play every season, so both couldn't be 12-0
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:48 AM
 
9,423 posts, read 7,071,740 times
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Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
What about when the time comes where we have Clemson at 12-0 and Florida State or Miami at 12-0 and two of them meet in the ACC championship game. Say Miami beats Clemson 24-21 resulting in Clemson getting left out of the playoffs. In the playoffs you end up with a 10-2 Big 10 champion instead of a 12-1 Clemson even though they end the season ranked number 4. Then in the first round of the playoffs that 10-2 Big 10 champion gets routed by Miami 56-3 and clearly Clemson was far superior and should have been in the playoffs over the team that made it simply because they were a conference champion. Would you still have the same point of view? That will without a doubt happen if you give automatic bids to conference champions.

You wind up with the Alabama/Georgia situation from last year.

Is there really any major difference between the situation you describe and the 12-1 Georgia and 11-1 Alabama making it? Only difference in your scenario and this is that they didn't play head to head in last years scenario. Which, I think made it easier to include them.

I think it's pretty well been shown that the conference championship games have little outcome on someone making the playoffs. We've had at least 2 non-conference champions get in. Alabama last year and 2016 Ohio State.

What we haven't had is your exact situation, where someone lost their conference championship.

Let's say it happened this year. Alabama had lost to Georgia. Georgia would have been in. No question. Clemson in.. So then, the questions become 2 spots for Notre Dame, Alabama, Oklahoma and Ohio State. Who's in?

Alabama losing a close game, where Tua was knocked out.. Would have been tough to leave them out. But.. You've got undefeated ND, 1 loss Big 10 Champ Ohio State (Whose one loss was bad), and one loss Big 12 champ Oklahoma.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:52 AM
 
9,423 posts, read 7,071,740 times
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Originally Posted by 7express View Post
That would be impossible since Miami & Florida State are in the same division meaning they play every season, so both couldn't be 12-0

No they're not.. So, yes they can.


FSU is in the Atlantic, Miami the Coastal.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:02 AM
 
9,423 posts, read 7,071,740 times
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Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
It is funny how eager some people are to ship Dabo to another place. It appears to be motivated by the belief Clemson cannot win with another coach.

Well.. Let's look at the past 40 years

Danny Ford, until the past 3 years.. No doubt would have been considered the best coach in Clemson history.

Ken Hatfield.. Not a bad coach at all. Got screwed a bit. Kept the program at a high standard.

About here is where things start going..

Tommy West.. WTF? Came close to destroying the program. Took it from a general top-10 program to lucky to be top-25.

Tommy Bowden.. Thought to be the savior. Did actually bring the program back to SOME relevance, but he was expected to do alot better than he did and he really just was lucky to be a top-25 program as well.



Dabo.. Well, he's the best now. I think if someone comes in and keeps the culture that Dabo has built.. They could win.. Quite as much? I don't know.. I mean, the best thing about Dabo isn't his football smarts. The best thing about Dabo is that he's a friggin salesman. He's the best recruiter in the nation.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Murrica
3,138 posts, read 1,792,147 times
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Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Dabo.. Well, he's the best now. I think if someone comes in and keeps the culture that Dabo has built.. They could win.. Quite as much? I don't know.. I mean, the best thing about Dabo isn't his football smarts. The best thing about Dabo is that he's a friggin salesman. He's the best recruiter in the nation.
I really like Dabo. I'm just tweaking the Clemson fans who have convinced themselves he could never leave because Clemson is Nirvana.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Well.. Let's look at the past 40 years

Danny Ford, until the past 3 years.. No doubt would have been considered the best coach in Clemson history.

Ken Hatfield.. Not a bad coach at all. Got screwed a bit. Kept the program at a high standard.

About here is where things start going..

Tommy West.. WTF? Came close to destroying the program. Took it from a general top-10 program to lucky to be top-25.

Tommy Bowden.. Thought to be the savior. Did actually bring the program back to SOME relevance, but he was expected to do alot better than he did and he really just was lucky to be a top-25 program as well.



Dabo.. Well, he's the best now. I think if someone comes in and keeps the culture that Dabo has built.. They could win.. Quite as much? I don't know.. I mean, the best thing about Dabo isn't his football smarts. The best thing about Dabo is that he's a friggin salesman. He's the best recruiter in the nation.
In my view, the ACC was much better in the Tommy Bowden era. BC, Maryland, UVA, NCSU, Va Tech, Wake etc had some of their best ever teams. The season before Bowden was fired, Clemson would have made ACC title game if not for an incredible 4th quarter throw by BC's QB.....Matt Ryan.

But my point is now Clemson has 3 total national titles and went to the playoffs 4 years in a row, and won 4 ACC titles in a row, it would take a especially bad coach to struggle at Clemson given it is located in a good recruiting area with warm weather and it has good facilities.

Each national title and/or trip to the playoffs makes it easier to recruit and win another one.
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