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Old 08-26-2018, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Fox Chapel
347 posts, read 126,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I don't really get why this is Urban Meyer's problem?
Exactly what I've been saying. It's odd, you'd think the guy that supposedly hit his wife would be responsible. All these self righteous folks.....too much.
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
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If you employ or rehire a known wife beater, you are an enabler. In Meyer’s case he is a bald faced lying enabler who only acted when exposed. The rest of the country knows that.
Very disappointing to see educated people buying into the tOSU propaganda spin of denial.

That school is stained with shame. Win at any cost.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:35 AM
 
Location: AriZona
5,230 posts, read 3,119,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I don't really get why this is Urban Meyer's problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
I think it is interesting that people care more about going after Urban Meyer then the person who may have actually committed the crime. It is almost like they think he did it. I am not even defending Meyer if he knew something he should have told someone but it seems a bit of a witch hunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
If you employ or rehire a known wife beater, you are an enabler. In Meyer’s case he is a bald faced lying enabler who only acted when exposed. The rest of the country knows that.
Very disappointing to see educated people buying into the tOSU propaganda spin of denial.

That school is stained with shame. Win at any cost.
ScoPro is correct.

If a person hires someone, then that person ultimately is responsible for any wrong doing of his/her employee, even if they personally did not commit the wrong-doing or crime itself. It's especially wrong when the employer knowingly remains in denial, and/or is knowingly covering up that wrong-doing or crime.
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Old 08-27-2018, 09:49 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,864,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
If you employ or rehire a known wife beater, you are an enabler. In Meyer’s case he is a bald faced lying enabler who only acted when exposed. The rest of the country knows that.
Very disappointing to see educated people buying into the tOSU propaganda spin of denial.

That school is stained with shame. Win at any cost.
You knowingly repeat your lie -- there is no evidence that Zach Smith was a "wife beater." Courtney Smith to my knowledge never accused Zach Smith of ever hitting her. I've never seen any report that Courtney Smith required or sought medical treatment for her injuries. You've been asked to provide evidence to the contrary, and yet you haven't done so.

See again post 91.

Urban Meyer could soon be out of a job.

Meyer and Ohio State have made it plain that they would not employ a wife beater.

The Smiths had a lousy, obviously dysfunctional marriage, and Zach Smith admits great culpability for the marriage's failure. There also were physical altercations of a disputed nature, but, again, there is no evidence that Zach Smith ever hit his wife.

Zach Smith was NEVER prosecuted for spousal abuse.

What appears true is that Meyer bent over backwards to provide the Smiths and their children with millions of dollars in compensation. This ended only when Zach Smith didn't report the trespassing charge from this past May to Meyer, which resulted in the current firestorm. Zach Smith admits he dropped his son off in his wife's driveway after she failed to show up at an agree upon meeting place to pick up the son, and Courtney Smith was waiting to take a video of Smith violating a court order by dropping the son off in the driveway. How will the court handle this situation?

I'm not defending Zach Smith. As with many Ohio State fans, I thought he should've been canned several years ago due to performance issues, and now that we've learned more about his character, he should have never been on the Ohio State football coaching staff.

What appears true, however, is that Meyer is being vilified essentially for trying to keep the grandson of his mentor in a relatively cushy position that supported well Smith's ex-wife and children. This financial pipeline ended only when May's trespassing charge, allegedly orchestrated by Courtney Smith according to Zach Smith's attorney, became the last straw.

Courtney Smith only incriminated Meyer after the financial pipeline was severed, allegedly as a result of her actions, and after she was divorced and apparently had no contact with Zach Smith apart from dealing with custody issues. Unless she believes that she has grounds to sue Meyer and Ohio State, I wish somebody would have asked her if she was trying to get Zach Smith fired, and, if so, why? What's Courtney Smith's side of the trespassing incident? What will happen when a judge adjudicates this incident?

Note that both athletic director Gene Smith and Ohio State compliance staff saw no evidence that Zach Smith had abused his wife in 2015, yet you and many members treat the 2015 charges as the truth. What evidence did Smith and Ohio State miss, as Courtney Smith provided no evidence publicly until after Zach Smith was fired? Are you advocating that all employees involved in alleged spousal abuse should be terminated, even when the accusing spouse required no medical attention, even when the alleged abuser was never charged after a police investigation, and even when the employee's termination would result in great financial harm to employee's family?

If Courtney Smith wanted Zach Smith fired, all she had to do was file charges against Zach Smith. She even could have gone directly to Meyer or Ohio State officials, and requested their intervention in this relationship. She did neither. She instead complained only to Urban Meyer's wife, and Urban Meyer in 2015 made it plain to Zach Smith that if he ever hit Courtney Smith, he would be canned.

My hunch is that Meyer would have liked to been rid of the entire situation, but continued Zach Smith's employment in order to provide financial support for Smith and his family, including Earle Bruce's great-grandchildren. Does anybody believe that Meyer kept Zach Smith around for any other reason? If so, why?

Perhaps the facts in this situation will change, but Meyer IMO is being persecuted in the press and by some disingenuous social media posters for his inartful handling of his attempts to help out a family member of his mentor. The truth is that Ohio State had a right to punish Meyer for employing Zach Smith and exposing the university and its athletic program to this PR storm. Based on the independent report, at least Shelley Meyer is worried about Zach Smith's future actions given an apparent drinking problem and his likely anger about his firing, which likely has terminated his career (Jay Paterno, an accomplished quarterback coach, never coached again after his father's termination).

However, knowingly repeating falsehoods, such as apparently inaccurate claims of "wife beating," essentially libeling other individuals, is an immense character flaw, although not uncommon in social media forums.

Last edited by WRnative; 08-27-2018 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:28 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,864,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt AZ View Post
If a person hires someone, then that person ultimately is responsible for any wrong doing of his/her employee, even if they personally did not commit the wrong-doing or crime itself.


Have you ever employed anybody? Are you a mind reader? Do you honestly believe that employers should never hire anybody with a character flaw? Heck, even if an employer hires the Pope, as present news suggests, under your theory an employer could be exposed to immense risk.

Even if somebody in the past ever was convicted of a crime, which is not the case of Zach Smith, are you arguing that no employer ever should hire them less the employer is held liable for their future actions outside the workplace?

Actually many employers are refusing to hire as employees individuals with certain character flaws. Due to the large numbers of individuals with opioid addiction histories, some employers are reporting difficulties in staffing positions. Obviously, with ongoing opioid addiction, employee concerns are obvious, but what about an individual now successfully in abstention?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ho...age-2018-06-28

If you ever were an employer, you would understand the difficulties of firing someone in the U.S. for even work-related reasons, let alone for actions committed outside of work. ADP, for example, offers a service to employers, which I highly recommend, to represent employers before state agencies when an ex-employee files a claim, such as for unemployment benefits, after termination for cause.

Similarly, in my experience, hiring individuals is a very uncertain task in today's America.

If you want to deal with a real thicket, have a business partner who insists on hiring family members....

I actually am much more sympathetic to athletic director Gene Smith and Ohio State than to Urban Meyer in the Zach Smith situation.

Last edited by WRnative; 08-27-2018 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:58 AM
 
Location: California
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I am not too familiar with this case, so did Zach Smith ever get charged or convicted of anything?
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:13 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,864,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just One of the Guys View Post
I am not too familiar with this case, so did Zach Smith ever get charged or convicted of anything?
He apparently is charged with criminal trespassing and, the last I knew, he had a court appearance scheduled for Aug. 22. Prosecutors have never charged Zach Smith with assault or spousal abuse.

https://myfox28columbus.com/news/loc...and-zach-smith

<<Nine reports obtained from Powell police involving Zach Smith and/or Courtney Smith between the dates of January 1, 2012 and July 26, 2018 involve domestic disputes between the Smiths, who divorced in 2016. That includes an alleged incident of domestic abuse on Oct. 25, 2015.

In that report, which was previously revealed last week, Courtney Smith claimed to be the victim of sustained physical abuse at the hands of her ex-husband.

In a report on Wednesday, Courtney Smith told Brett McMurphy that her ex-husband "shoved me up against the wall, with his hands around my neck." Those details are not included in the report from Powell police, and no charges were filed form the incident....

Smith is facing a charge of criminal trespass after driving into Courtney Smith's driveway during a child custody exchange on May 12, 2018. Zach Smith had previously been warned that driving onto his ex-wife's property could result in such a charge, which was detailed in the additional reports obtained by cleveland.com.
>>

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/0...of_domest.html

Pages 3-11 of the independent report contain all of the allegations against Zach Smith and the independent commission's factual findings. As I've repeatedly said in this thread, these findings show Urban Meyer bending over backwards to keep Zach Smith employed, likely as a consideration for Zach Smith's grandfather, Earle Bruce, who was Meyer's mentor and instrumental in Meyer's career. Click on last document here for the full report.

https://news.osu.edu/public-records-...g-urban-meyer/

Pages 12-14 detail the circumstances surrounding Meyer's alleged lying to the media about Zach Smith's alleged abuse of his ex-wife. The report explained why Meyer was confused due to false media reports that Zach Smith had been arrested in 2015, and because he didn't remember the alleged abuse incidents in 2015.

<<Thereafter, still during the evening of July 23, 2018, Meyer received additional media reports discussing Zach Smith’s 2009 arrest and a “felony arrest” involving Zach Smith in 2015; at 10:25 p.m., Coach Meyer sent a message to Gene Smith, Jerry Emig, the Assistant Director, Athletic Communications, Brian Voltolini, Director of Football Operations, and Ryan Stamper, Director, Player Development, stating “I know nothing about this”; he asked “Is there a way to find out exactly what his issues were. I know about 2009 [it was dropped] and last week. That’s it. Need some guidance here so when I speak to media I’m not wrong.” Later that evening, Stamper reported to Meyer that there was no record of Zach Smith being arrested in 2015, only records of a divorce. Meyer acknowledged this, stating “Stamp just confirmed there was no arrest in 2015.” As the same text chain continued into the morning of July 24, 2018, AD Smith cautioned “I would be careful. Do not get too detailed.” He went on to advise that whatever Coach Meyer says on this subject at Big Ten Media Days should be said in his opening statement “and take no more questions on it.” Gene Smith also suggested the following remarks for Meyer for Big Ten Media Days: “As you are aware through our release, we have made a change in our wide receivers coaching position. As Zach dealt with his personal challenge I was aware of two legal instances in 2009 and 2015. This most recent issue is inconsistent with our values. . . . Needs to be cleaned up in your words…..just a thought.” Meyer responds “Thx.” Emig, the Athletic Communications Director, followed up at 7:26 a.m. on July 24th saying “[t]hose are good points” and recommending that Meyer, with respect to the events of 2015, state “[t]here were no charges in 2015 and I really don’t even recall any details.” Meyer does not respond....

(a) Coach Meyer’s statements re the 2015 events:
(i) On July 24, 2018, at Big Ten Media Days, when a reporter asked Meyer , “[t]he 2015 reported incident . . . are you saying that you don’t know anything about that or do you believe that, that didn’t happen?” Meyer responded that “I can’t say that didn’t happen because I wasn’t there. I was never told about anything, never anything came to light, I’ve never had a conversation about it. So I know nothing about that . . . First I heard about that was last night . . . . [w]hen I asked some people back at the office to call and see what happened and they came back and said they know nothing about it.” Meyer also confirmed that the 2015 events were not, in the words of the reporter’s question “a factor in [his] decision with Zach”;
(ii) In later comments at the press conference, Meyer reiterated “2015, I got a text late last night something happened in 2015. And there was nothing. Once again, there’s nothing – once again, I don’t know who creates a story like that.”
(b) Follow-on conversations with AD Smith and Brian Voltolini:
(i) At some point over the next several days, both AD Smith and Brian Voltolini, who were both surprised at Coach Meyer’s statements at Big Ten Media Days about 2015, spoke with Coach Meyer to tell him that he had, in fact, been aware of the law enforcement investigation involving allegations of
14

abuse against Zach Smith in 2015. Meyer says that he was reminded, to a limited extent, of the 2015 events only in these conversations and maintains that, until that point, he had no recollection whatsoever of the 2015 domestic violence investigation of Zach Smith.

(ii) We interviewed the other parties to the group text of July 23rd and July 24th, who told us that they believed that Coach Meyer’s statements at Big Ten Media Days about 2015 were the product of his confusion and fixation on the information he received the night before that the reports of a felony arrest in 2015 were inaccurate. >>

According to the independent report, and to comments made by Athletic Director Gene Smith, both Meyer and his wife Shelley and Gene Smith discounted the veracity of Courtney Smith to some degree (see post 128 in this thread for the comments of Gene Smith's attorney).

Urban Meyer could soon be out of a job.

My hunch is that Courtney Smith's credibility was impaired, fairly or not, by Courtney Smith never reporting that she had been hit and because she apparently had never required medical attention, in addition to the fact that no prosecutor had ever pursued her assault allegations. The circumstances of the criminal trespassing charge, if the account of Zach Smith's attorney is accurate, also suggests some bad faith on the part of Courtney Smith (see post 91 for the comments of Zach Smith and Zach Smith's attorney on all of the charges).

Urban Meyer could soon be out of a job.

Also for Meyer not apologizing to Courtney Smith, after putting up with Zach Smith for years in order to provide both her and her children with substantial financial benefits (certainly in the many hundreds of thousands of dollars), Meyer likely wasn't happy that she had unleashed a media storm on him AFTER her actions allegedly resulted in the trespassing charge that eventually resulted in Meyer firing her ex-husband.

As for Ohio State fans, myself and likely most others are thrilled that Zach Smith finally is gone and replaced with Brian Hartline.
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:38 PM
 
2,469 posts, read 2,852,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Based on everything that I've read, this post is essentially FALSE. Here's why:

Definition of beating:

<<: an act of striking with repeated blows so as to injure or damage; also : the injury or damage thus inflicted >>

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/beating

Here's the New York Times article about the Ohio State report on this incident prepared by outside attorneys.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/s...te-report.html

Show me any evidence, including Zach Smith e-mails, that suggest let alone prove that Zach Smith beat his wife, at least in Ohio. Many persons who have followed this story believe that Courtney Smith fabricated charges against Zach Smith, reportedly a possibility confirmed by Courtney Smith's estranged mother.

If Smith's wife actually had been beaten in Ohio, even in Columbus, Smith would have been charged with assault. Zach Smith never was charged with assault to my knowledge. This doesn't mean that Zach Smith should have, for many reasons, employed by the OSU football team.

WHAT IS INACCURATE IS TO STATE THAT URBAN MEYER OR OHIO STATE CONDONED OR COVERED UP WIFE BEATING.

Meyer critics don't understand that Meyer likely has been caught up in a custody battle, which is about to play out in the courts. Remember what led to Smith's termination at Ohio State, according to Zach Smith -- an arrest for criminal trespassing, NOT assault:

<<According to the criminal complaint also obtained by Eleven Warriors, "Mr. Smith took his son to his ex-wife's residence (redacted) to drop him off after being instructed by Ms. Smith not to come to her residence and disregarding a previous criminal trespass warning that had been given to him by Detective Pentz on Dec. 19, 2017 at 2 p.m. The incident was witnessed by Ms. Smith and their son along with photographs of Mr. Smith's vehicle being present in her driveway. Mr. Smith also admitted to Sgt. Roach that he was present on Ms. Smith's property and acknowledged receipt of the trespass warning given to him by Detective Pentz.">>

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...ourt-Wednesday

Zach Smith's attorney explains what happened in May, according to Zach Smith. If this is accurate, it sounds as if Courtney Smith deliberately set up her ex-husband.

<<"Zach was returning his 13-year-old son to his ex-wife, which had previously been agreed upon," Koffel said. "The exact location of the drop-off hadn't been discussed. They were texting each other as to where to meet. She told them to meet at their apartment complex clubhouse. He drove there. She wasn't there, and he dropped the son at her apartment. She was waiting for him with her cell phone out, and took a picture of him in her driveway. He left and she called the Powell police and said it was trespassing.
"She never presented the shared parenting plan to the police department. She never presented the shared parenting plan to the Delaware prosecutor's office. A criminal complaint was filed against Zach. He was never arrested. He went to Powell PD and picked up the criminal trespass complaint. At no point did he ever violate the shared parenting plan. And we entered a not guilty (plea) on June 5."
While an arrest report was filed, Smith's attorney Brad Koffel said Wednesday during an interview on 610 WTVN Radio that his client was not taken into custody.>>

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-s...hes-119906337/

<<Zach Smith, the Ohio State receivers coach who was fired July 23 after being charged with violating a protective order against his ex-wife, Courtney, told 105.7 The Zone in Columbus and ESPN he had not committed any acts of domestic violence.

Smith told ESPN that he had conversations with both director of athletics Gene Smith and Meyer about a 2015 domestic violence allegation that has been the catalyst for Meyer being put on administrative leave this week.

“I told (Meyer), ‘Courtney is accusing me that I committed domestic violence. I didn’t,’ ” Zach Smith told ESPN’s Dan Murphy. “I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m going to meet with the investigator to find out what the deal is.

“I told the police anything that happened to her body was a defensive action to remove myself from the situation.”

Zach Smith said Meyer’s response was to look at him and say, “'Zach, if you hit her, you’re fired immediately.’ And I looked at him and I said, ‘Coach, if I hit her, I wouldn’t even be here. I know how you feel about that. If I hit her, I wouldn’t come to work. I would know, it’s over.’”

When the interviewer replied, “And you never hit her?” to which Smith said, “No, I never hit her....”

“All I know is I never hit my wife. I never beat her. Nothing. Now, we had a toxic relationship and I’m at fault as much as she is because I did things I should not have done. I was not a good husband. I wasn’t good, great at it, but I never committed domestic violence.” >>

https://www.daytondailynews.com/spor...Sn5574z9RcByO/

I'm not saying that Zach Smith isn't abusive or doesn't have problems. I just haven't read anything about Smith "beating" his wife, or that he has been prosecuted for physical abuse.

https://www.thelantern.com/2018/08/f...st-zach-smith/

And reportedly even Courtney Smith's mother accuses her daughter of filing false charges against Zach Smith.

<<In their interview with Snook, Bruce and Carano claim the domestic abuse allegations against Zach Smith are false, and that Courtney Smith vowed years ago to "take down" her ex-husband, and Meyer.

Bruce told Snook that her former daughter-in-law told her back in 2013 that she would "take Zach down and take Urban Meyer down with him."

Carano, the estranged mother of Courtney Smith, reportedly told Snook in text messages that she doesn't believe Zach Smith ever "intentionally swung or punched" or "intentionally abused" her daughter.

Asked by Snook if she ever heard her daughter vow to "take Zach down," Carano replied, "yes.">>

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/0...r_zach_sm.html

My hunch is that what Meyer is guilty of, in deference to his mentor Earl Bruce, is keeping Zach Smith in a very well-paying job in order to support Bruce's grandchildren and Courtney Smith. Many Ohio State fans didn't believe Zach Smith was a very good receiver coach (check out Michael Thomas' record at Ohio State versus in the NFL, where some consider him the best receiver in the NFL), but a very good recruiter. Courtney Smith likely wanted the financial resources that Ohio State provided her and her children, or she would have filed charges against Zach Smith years ago.

Note that Courtney Smith didn't turn on Meyer until he was finally fired Zach Smith, thereby changing the likely financial lifeline for the Smith family, including Courtney Smith. It's possible that Courtney Smith was trying this year to get their custody agreement modified, but didn't actually expect to get Zach Smith fired. If she had wanted Smith fired, she could have pressed charges over many years.
I disagree and, ultimately, think Urban should be/should have been fired.

First, I would nullify anything Courtney's mom, Tina Carano, said exonerating Zach. Sure it seems strong evidence given that Tina is Courtney's Mom, but digging further we find that the 2 were estranged and it surely smells that Tina had an agenda against her own daughter. I mean, come on, what Mom is going to go the media and expressly state that Courtney's goal was to "take down" Zach because she'd previously caught him cheating... which may, indeed, be true ... but I just won't give any credibility to to what this particular mom says. Whether one believes some or all of the damning anecdotal evidence against Courtney or not, the idea of domestic abuse, certainly the allegation that Zach either put his hands around her neck (Tina even admits this happened, but claimed Zach acted in self-defense... ah, yeah right) and/or threw Courtney, then pregnant, against a wall (Zach was arrested in 2009 for this (even though, ultimately, Courtney did not press charges) and Urban says he knew about it), Urban, as head football coach and, essentially CEO of the entire athletics department and, by default, the entire university (then, as now, Urban was the highest paid public employee in Florida as he currently is in Ohio, higher even than Michael Drake who was recently cited as the highest paid college prez) had a duty to fully investigate the matter thoroughly, especially given the fact that, he now admits, he was aware of the situation at the time. Sorry, merely suggesting Zach and Courtney go see a marriage counselor wasn't good enough. The stakes, on all levels, were way too high.

Secondly FACT: Urban specifically told the media and OSU that he was never aware of the 2015 Florida incident of the Courtney domestic abuse call to the local police... Whether or not Zach was arrested (he wasn't) does not negate the fact that Urban was, indeed, aware of a problem and that he subsequently lied to cover it up -- a lie which he admitted when he later reversed himself, when the heat was on, and admitted he had, in fact, known about the 2015. That in itself was FIRE-ABLE OFFENSE.

Third... Urban ran a rouge ship at Florida. 31 of his players were arrested during his nearly six years as the Gators' coach ranging from possession of alcohol by a minor to possession of a concealed weapon, to aggravated stalking, domestic violence by strangulation, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny and fraudulent use of credit cards. Some of these charges were ultimately dismissed but, still, the sheer volume of them is eye-opening and was a red flag to OSU when they pondered landing Urban that he be kept on a short leash. The whole Zach Smith sorted affair brings the Florida stuff back to life.

Fourth... Zach reportedly blew $600 of OSU's money to take another OSU assistant coach, apparently Tom Hermann, along with "1 or more" high school coaches to a Florida strip club in 2014, a clear NCAA violation. Urban reportedly knew about this and only reprimanded/threatened Zach with an "... it better not happen again" kinda thing. Sorry, not good enough.

Fifth… Why now? If Urban had the goods to fire Zach last month, why did he wait until the public heat was on when he could have/should have, done so back in Florida? … or, at the latest, in 2014 when Zach clearly violated NCAA rules while cavorting to strip clubs with OSU and high school coaches?

Sixth... OSU's choices are stark black and white: either they disregard everything and keep Urban with no punishment at all, or fire him, because the above, either singularly or, definitely, cumulatively, are stark enough to warrant discharge. Anything short of this is hypocritical which is why the University as a whole now sits on the hot seat of public opinion and still leaves the door open for Urban's potential departure.
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
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Gotta laugh at the pathetic attempt of the osu propaganda machine to drag Tom Herman into urban meyer’s dirty coverup scandal.
What a bunch of stupid dirtbags.
And the contorted logic their administration is using to justify keeping that lowlife liar as head coach is junior high level excusing.
Osu has dug themselves into a cesspit, and the rest of the country that is paying attention knows it.
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:19 AM
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Location: Ohio
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Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
Gotta laugh at the pathetic attempt of the osu propaganda machine to drag Tom Herman into urban meyer’s dirty coverup scandal.
Would you still be laughing if Tom Herman (or his wife, which has been rumored but not refuted) was the source of the information in the original article? FTR, Tom officially denied being the source.

Will you be laughing if Tom Herman's alleged visit to the strip club with high school coaches causes Ohio State to be penalized by the NCAA?

Just curious to know where the comedy in the situation ends for fans of Ohio State's rivals.
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