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Old 10-19-2018, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
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Down through the years, the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry has always been rated among the greatest, quite often cited as The Greatest. For years, the Michigan-Ohio State game determined the Big Ten championship.

But that was then.

Michigan's fade from the top ranks of college football and Ohio State's dominance cooled the rivalry. B1G expansion and divisional play knocked the game off as the season ender.

Since Mark Dantonio arrived at MSU and started knocked off U-M with regularity over the past 10 or so years, what was once a bit more of a one sided rivalry that meant a lot to the Spartans, was cavalierly dismissed by the Wolverines.

When Penn State joined the B1G in the 90s, it set up a natural OSU-PSU rivalry that has only gotten stronger as the power of these two teams, next door neighbors, keeps them both in the upper echelon of college football.

So, how do we assess the OSU-Michigan rivalry? Would you still consider to be among the top college rivalries or has it lost that status?

And the additional question: could one make a reasonable argument that either or both UM-MSU and OSU-PSU are actually bigger rivalries today than are UM-OSU?
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:07 AM
 
1,898 posts, read 2,948,812 times
Reputation: 1618
For argument sake lets define THEN. 70s? 80s? 90s? early 00s?

And are we talking implications on the college football landscape or just the term "rivalry"

If we're talking the term "rivalry" then you definitely have a case to make as OSU has won 15 of the last 17 meetings. As they say it's not really a rivalry if the other team doesn't win.

If we're talking college football landscape implications lets look at what each team was ranked at the time of the game.

Lets just use the 21st century (2001-now)

2001: OSU (unranked), UM (11)
2002: OSU (2), UM (12)
2003: OSU (4), UM (5)
2004: OSU (unranked), UM (7)
2005: OSU (9), UM (17)
2006: OSU (1), UM (2)
2007: OSU (7), UM (23)
2008: OSU (10), UM (unranked)
2009: OSU (9), UM (unranked)
2010: OSU (8), UM (unranked)
2011: OSU (unranked), UM (17)
2012: OSU (4), UM (20)
2013: OSU (3), UM (unranked)
2014: OSU (7), UM (unranked)
2015: OSU (8), UM (12)
2016: OSU (2), UM (3)
2017: OSU (8), UM (unranked)

3 times over the last 17 seasons both schools were top 10 at time of meeting. Not sure what research into the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s would turn up as far as that stat goes but I'd be willing to bet the numbers would be similar.

The one stat that is clearly supportive of THE GAME not having as much to do with the college football landscape as it use to is the fact that in at least half of the meetings these last 17 seasons one of the two teams was not even ranked in the top 25.

For comparison sake the last 17 seasons have seen only 3 times when Alabama and Auburn met for their annual Iron Bowl game and both were ranked in the top 10. I mention this game because this is the only other game that involves two schools who are even remotely in the national discussion each season (USC / UCLA was never a NATIONAL game since UCLA has never been a true football school, Clemson / USC is similar in that each year one team is dominant and the other is a whipping boy, nobody outside Mississippi cares about the Egg Bowl, Texas and A&M USE to be a good game, same with FSU / UF, FSU / Miami, etc.....) When you look across the CF landscape while USC went up and came crashing down, Texas has had their issues, FSU, Miami, UF are shells of what they once were......OSU / UM and Bama / Auburn for the most part have sustained IMO.


OSU - PSU is becoming a game of note but not what I would call a rivalry. Having gone to school in Toledo, Ohio I can tell you from meeting many UM / MSU folk that that has ALWAYS been a rivalry but not one YET where it matches OSU / UM. There is without a doubt bad blood between UM-MSU, OSU-PSU but nobody spends an entire week, month, season, year in anticipation of that team in ann arbor or columbus.

THE GAME is always better when the coaches and or players are "colorful". Those OSU/UM games in the mid to late 90s were certainly enticing because of the characters involved. The story lines were great. So many future NFL guys playing in those games in the 90s helped too.

Meyer v. Harbaugh adds to it or has helped add to it / get it back on track IMO.

I think the game is just fine as it stands with the two coaches involved. I HOPE both schools enter the game top 10 here in a month.
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Old 11-02-2018, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,340 posts, read 14,093,273 times
Reputation: 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Michigan's fade from the top ranks of college football and Ohio State's dominance cooled the rivalry. B1G expansion and divisional play knocked the game off as the season ender.

Since Mark Dantonio arrived at MSU and started knocked off U-M with regularity over the past 10 or so years, what was once a bit more of a one sided rivalry that meant a lot to the Spartans, was cavalierly dismissed by the Wolverines.

When Penn State joined the B1G in the 90s, it set up a natural OSU-PSU rivalry that has only gotten stronger as the power of these two teams, next door neighbors, keeps them both in the upper echelon of college football.

So, how do we assess the OSU-Michigan rivalry? Would you still consider to be among the top college rivalries or has it lost that status?

And the additional question: could one make a reasonable argument that either or both UM-MSU and OSU-PSU are actually bigger rivalries today than are UM-OSU?
Michigan is ranked number 5 in the country, and considered a front-runner to grab a playoff spot. Despite a bit of a down cycle since Lloyd Carr retired, Michigan is still Michigan. As far as Mich vs MSU, that has always been a rivalry. Perhaps Michigan looks down on "little brother," but that adds to the rivalry. It is not a bigger rivalry than Mich-OSU, and never has been. I think you would have to qualify why you think that has changed before asking the question.
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
3,169 posts, read 4,635,377 times
Reputation: 5343
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Down through the years, the Michigan-Ohio State rivalry has always been rated among the greatest, quite often cited as The Greatest. For years, the Michigan-Ohio State game determined the Big Ten championship.

But that was then.

Michigan's fade from the top ranks of college football and Ohio State's dominance cooled the rivalry. B1G expansion and divisional play knocked the game off as the season ender.

Since Mark Dantonio arrived at MSU and started knocked off U-M with regularity over the past 10 or so years, what was once a bit more of a one sided rivalry that meant a lot to the Spartans, was cavalierly dismissed by the Wolverines.

When Penn State joined the B1G in the 90s, it set up a natural OSU-PSU rivalry that has only gotten stronger as the power of these two teams, next door neighbors, keeps them both in the upper echelon of college football.

So, how do we assess the OSU-Michigan rivalry? Would you still consider to be among the top college rivalries or has it lost that status?

And the additional question: could one make a reasonable argument that either or both UM-MSU and OSU-PSU are actually bigger rivalries today than are UM-OSU?

I agree with you that Mich-O.S. has lost it's luster over the last 15 years somewhat.


Thankfully, that's not the case this year. Michigan has been playing some really good football this year. Meanwhile Ohio State has been showing some vulnerability. Watching the Purdue/Ohio State game was a joy. Ohio State is such a tainted program. KICK THE BUCKEYES BUTTS WOLVERINES!!!
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Old 11-03-2018, 07:22 PM
 
1,898 posts, read 2,948,812 times
Reputation: 1618
FWIW back in 2007 I was at a wrestling tournament in South Carolina the day of THE GAME. At one point during the tournament they took the time to stop all action and announce the half time score of THE GAME. I'm willing to guess not too many other state high school sporting events are stopped during and have THE GAME's half time score announced. Certainly not in a state hours away.
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Fox Chapel
347 posts, read 126,258 times
Reputation: 310
No, it's not morphing. Both OSU and M HATE each other. Coaches get fired for losing this game.
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale
1,130 posts, read 553,174 times
Reputation: 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye View Post
For argument sake lets define THEN. 70s? 80s? 90s? early 00s?

And are we talking implications on the college football landscape or just the term "rivalry"

If we're talking the term "rivalry" then you definitely have a case to make as OSU has won 15 of the last 17 meetings. As they say it's not really a rivalry if the other team doesn't win.

If we're talking college football landscape implications lets look at what each team was ranked at the time of the game.

Lets just use the 21st century (2001-now)

2001: OSU (unranked), UM (11)
2002: OSU (2), UM (12)
2003: OSU (4), UM (5)
2004: OSU (unranked), UM (7)
2005: OSU (9), UM (17)
2006: OSU (1), UM (2)
2007: OSU (7), UM (23)
2008: OSU (10), UM (unranked)
2009: OSU (9), UM (unranked)
2010: OSU (8), UM (unranked)
2011: OSU (unranked), UM (17)
2012: OSU (4), UM (20)
2013: OSU (3), UM (unranked)
2014: OSU (7), UM (unranked)
2015: OSU (8), UM (12)
2016: OSU (2), UM (3)
2017: OSU (8), UM (unranked)

3 times over the last 17 seasons both schools were top 10 at time of meeting. Not sure what research into the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s would turn up as far as that stat goes but I'd be willing to bet the numbers would be similar.

The one stat that is clearly supportive of THE GAME not having as much to do with the college football landscape as it use to is the fact that in at least half of the meetings these last 17 seasons one of the two teams was not even ranked in the top 25.

For comparison sake the last 17 seasons have seen only 3 times when Alabama and Auburn met for their annual Iron Bowl game and both were ranked in the top 10. I mention this game because this is the only other game that involves two schools who are even remotely in the national discussion each season (USC / UCLA was never a NATIONAL game since UCLA has never been a true football school, Clemson / USC is similar in that each year one team is dominant and the other is a whipping boy, nobody outside Mississippi cares about the Egg Bowl, Texas and A&M USE to be a good game, same with FSU / UF, FSU / Miami, etc.....) When you look across the CF landscape while USC went up and came crashing down, Texas has had their issues, FSU, Miami, UF are shells of what they once were......OSU / UM and Bama / Auburn for the most part have sustained IMO.


OSU - PSU is becoming a game of note but not what I would call a rivalry. Having gone to school in Toledo, Ohio I can tell you from meeting many UM / MSU folk that that has ALWAYS been a rivalry but not one YET where it matches OSU / UM. There is without a doubt bad blood between UM-MSU, OSU-PSU but nobody spends an entire week, month, season, year in anticipation of that team in ann arbor or columbus.

THE GAME is always better when the coaches and or players are "colorful". Those OSU/UM games in the mid to late 90s were certainly enticing because of the characters involved. The story lines were great. So many future NFL guys playing in those games in the 90s helped too.

Meyer v. Harbaugh adds to it or has helped add to it / get it back on track IMO.

I think the game is just fine as it stands with the two coaches involved. I HOPE both schools enter the game top 10 here in a month.
It certainly is a rivalry this year - Michigan needs to beat Ohio State to win the Big 10. Ohio State would love nothing more than to stop them. Michigan is the higher ranked team and Ohio State was annihilated by Purdue (of all teams). So, on paper it should be somewhat of a mismatch, but odds are Ohio State will give them the hardest game of the season to the tense final seconds. The rivalry is as alive as it has ever been as far as the College Football Playoff ranking is concerned for Michigan's right to claim a spot.

I saw Bo Schembechler coach in person. He was great but it doesn't seem like he could ever get pass 1 or 2 crucial games lost per season that stopped him from winning a championship. A lot of that can be blamed on Notre Dame's prominence back in the 1960s, 1970s and 80s. To me, I thought Michigan-Notre Dame was more of a rivalry with national implications for that era. By contrast, I know Michigan fans who claim it has ALWAYS been Michigan-Ohio State. But I know other Michigan fans who agree with me - the Notre Dame-Michigan rivalry was more prominent in national discussions. Statistically, I would vote the latter based on objective reality. And this is coming from a guy who hopes Notre Dame loses out on the CFP to avoid a gross mismatch with Alabama or Clemson (or some other similar team in the SEC) just like back in 2013. But then again, Michigan could wind up in a mismatch like that too if they win out.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: OHIO
2,350 posts, read 1,074,758 times
Reputation: 5378
It's still the bigger rivalry. But as a fan, I am also biased.


Yeah, PSU became a rivalry, but it doesn't feel the same as OSU/UM. It's The Game..to us fans anyway.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:35 AM
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Location: Ohio
16,822 posts, read 33,203,260 times
Reputation: 13610
I'm a Buckeye fan who's not an alum and I care more about the overall record than the results of this game. (FTR, I'm posting this before the results of this season's game were known.) I've noticed alums care deeply about the rivalry.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:37 AM
 
107 posts, read 35,115 times
Reputation: 222
Still the top rivalry. the team from up north can lick them. Go Bucks!
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