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Old 11-28-2008, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Kentucky/ Displaced Texan
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Mack Brown with 200 wins last night and Texas becomes the 2nd most winning college football program in history behind Michigan.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Central Nebraska
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Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, Mac Brown, Urban Meyer and Tressel are pretty obvious.

Brain Kelly, Paul Johnson and Jim Grobe all impress me, but don't know if there top 5.

I have to give a shout out to Turner Gill, if you can take Buffalo to a bowl game, you can't be too bad of a coach. He should get a better job somewhere.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Underachiever? I think he quickly turned Texas program to one of the best in the country. He has a young team that no one thought could finish with better than 8 wins. He is well on the way to being one of the greats in a conference that is how as strong or stronger than even the SEC.The SEC has long been the strongest conference to win a championship in.Looking at next year he has a dominate team coming back with few loss players.
By themselves his accomplishments seem impressive but when you put him up against the rest of the list, it shows how far he has to go to be a Top 5 coach. When you look at the recruiting in TX and his disappointing bowl appearances, I would not be very satisfied as a UT fan.

Even though Texas tried to argue that they belonged in a BCS game as an at-large team (in years they didn't receive a BCS bid), they were 3-3 under Brown against "inferior" teams in "inferior" bowl games.

I still see him as the coach that can't win when it counts, 2005 excepted. That was also the only year they won the Big 12 under Brown. I agree he is on his way, especially with a Natl Title under his belt, but he has a long way to go still. He's not even the best coach in his conference division. He can start by making a habit of beating Oklahoma for the Division title; Oklahoma holds a 2:1 edge over Texas under Brown.
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Kentucky/ Displaced Texan
3,106 posts, read 2,671,752 times
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Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
By themselves his accomplishments seem impressive but when you put him up against the rest of the list, it shows how far he has to go to be a Top 5 coach. When you look at the recruiting in TX and his disappointing bowl appearances, I would not be very satisfied as a UT fan.

Even though Texas tried to argue that they belonged in a BCS game as an at-large team (in years they didn't receive a BCS bid), they were 3-3 under Brown against "inferior" teams in "inferior" bowl games.

I still see him as the coach that can't win when it counts, 2005 excepted. That was also the only year they won the Big 12 under Brown. I agree he is on his way, especially with a Natl Title under his belt, but he has a long way to go still. He's not even the best coach in his conference division. He can start by making a habit of beating Oklahoma for the Division title; Oklahoma holds a 2:1 edge over Texas under Brown.

Um really?

So the fact Texas is 7-3 in bowl games 2-0 in the Rose Bowl. Mack Brown is 114-26 at Texas (81% winning percentage).

Lets compare this to Bob Stoops. OU is 4-5 in Bowl games, losing the last 2 BCS games to Boise St and West Virgina, real powerhouses . Stoops is 89-28, assuming he wins tonight a winning percentage of 76%.

Also, you OU holds a 2:1 edge over Mack Brown coached Texas team in the Red River Rivalry is BS. OU has 6 wins Texas has 5.

So please next time reserach and before you post BS that a simple google search shows your wrong.
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Packersnut21 View Post
Um really?

So the fact Texas is 7-3 in bowl games 2-0 in the Rose Bowl. Mack Brown is 114-26 at Texas (81% winning percentage).

Lets compare this to Bob Stoops. OU is 4-5 in Bowl games, losing the last 2 BCS games to Boise St and West Virgina, real powerhouses . Stoops is 89-28, assuming he wins tonight a winning percentage of 76%.

Also, you OU holds a 2:1 edge over Mack Brown coached Texas team in the Red River Rivalry is BS. OU has 6 wins Texas has 5.

So please next time reserach and before you post BS that a simple google search shows your wrong.
Yeah, really.

I stated that OU leads UT in division titles, not head-to-head. That is a true statement, 6:3.

Also, if you scroll up a bit you will see my own criteria for picking a coach, and I specifically point out that career wins are not particularly important, otherwise we would just argue about Joe Pa vs. Bowden. There are other important indicators, such as conference titles, BCS games, recruiting, etc. Career wins are more characteristic of longevity, not just talent, although they do tend to go hand-in-hand. Stoops has spent much less time a a head coach than Brown, and Brown was a very mediocre coach at UNC.

As for bowl games, Stoops is 2-4 in BCS, 2-1 in non-BCS bowls. Brown is 2-0 in BCS, 5-3 in non-BCS. The first thing that tells me is that Brown has been to 1/3 the number of BCS games as Stoops; Brown has missed the boat a few times. Stoops is 2-1 in non-BCS bowls and Brown is 5-3.

There are a lot of different conclusions to be drawn from these numbers, but this is mine: an overtime loss (or even a regulation loss) in the Fiesta Bowl is still better than a Cotton Bowl victory. It's like comparing an NIT victory to an NCAA tourney loss. Regardless of the result, it's a second tier bowl game.

OU looked much better in their loss to undefeated Boise St than UT (10-2) did in their squeaker over Iowa (6-6) the year before in the Alamo Bowl. All bowl victories and losses are not the same.

Of course, since we are talking about active coaches, another national championship for either coach would probably shoot them up the list, but at this point neither is in the Top 5.
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Kentucky/ Displaced Texan
3,106 posts, read 2,671,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
Yeah, really.

I stated that OU leads UT in division titles, not head-to-head. That is a true statement, 6:3.

Also, if you scroll up a bit you will see my own criteria for picking a coach, and I specifically point out that career wins are not particularly important, otherwise we would just argue about Joe Pa vs. Bowden. There are other important indicators, such as conference titles, BCS games, recruiting, etc. Career wins are more characteristic of longevity, not just talent, although they do tend to go hand-in-hand. Stoops has spent much less time a a head coach than Brown, and Brown was a very mediocre coach at UNC.

As for bowl games, Stoops is 2-4 in BCS, 2-1 in non-BCS bowls. Brown is 2-0 in BCS, 5-3 in non-BCS. The first thing that tells me is that Brown has been to 1/3 the number of BCS games as Stoops; Brown has missed the boat a few times. Stoops is 2-1 in non-BCS bowls and Brown is 5-3.

There are a lot of different conclusions to be drawn from these numbers, but this is mine: an overtime loss (or even a regulation loss) in the Fiesta Bowl is still better than a Cotton Bowl victory. It's like comparing an NIT victory to an NCAA tourney loss. Regardless of the result, it's a second tier bowl game.

OU looked much better in their loss to undefeated Boise St than UT (10-2) did in their squeaker over Iowa (6-6) the year before in the Alamo Bowl. All bowl victories and losses are not the same.

Of course, since we are talking about active coaches, another national championship for either coach would probably shoot them up the list, but at this point neither is in the Top 5.
So your argument is that Brown having more Bowl wins ans a better record in the BCS vs teams such as USC and Michigan. As opposed to OU's opponents, Boise St and West Virgina, isnt the better coach? good one there
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:13 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,175,451 times
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Originally Posted by Packersnut21 View Post
So your argument is that Brown having more Bowl wins ans a better record in the BCS vs teams such as USC and Michigan. As opposed to OU's opponents, Boise St and West Virgina, isnt the better coach? good one there
All Bowls are not the same, so you can't compare a win over Iowa in the Alamo Bowl to a BCS win or loss. It's nowhere near the same level of bowl game. I don't think many reasonable UT fans are satisfied with a Cotton Bowl win, they want a shot at the National Championship, or at least a BCS Bowl. And they want to beat OU. Brown has not done any of these with more frequency than Stoops.

Both coaches have won 2 BCS Games, however Stoops has coached his team to 4 more BCS appearances than Brown, which have all been losses. So do you believe that a win over Iowa in the Alamo Bowl is as good as a chance to play in a BCS game against any team the BCS picks? If so, then UT expectations are very sad.

I don't have a horse in this particular race, but I would be infinitely happier with a coach who regularly took my team to a BCS bowl, regardless of the outcome of the game, than a coach who rarely made it there, but had some nice wins in second-tier bowl games.
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Kentucky/ Displaced Texan
3,106 posts, read 2,671,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
So do you believe that a win over Iowa in the Alamo Bowl is as good as a chance to play in a BCS game against any team the BCS picks? If so, then UT expectations are very sad.

So your saying Winning in a Bowl game is not as good as losing in a BCS game? Is that right? A win isnt as good as a loss, even by 20 points vs West Virgina? Sorry that doesn't work.
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:46 AM
 
743 posts, read 1,175,451 times
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Originally Posted by Packersnut21 View Post
So your saying Winning in a Bowl game is not as good as losing in a BCS game? Is that right? A win isnt as good as a loss, even by 20 points vs West Virgina? Sorry that doesn't work.
That's not what I'm saying. I am saying that regardless of the outcome, an appearance in a BCS game is far superior to an appearance in a second tier bowl. The Alamo Bowl, the Cotton Bowl are consolation prizes, honorable mentions.
Look at it this way, you can't hold it against Stoops for losing in BCS games without crediting him for getting his team to the BCS game. That is something Stoops has done 3 times as much as Brown.
Stoops is a coach that has a hard time winning the big games (2-4 in BCS play) but Brown is a coach that rarely even gets his team into the big game.
Very good coaches give their teams a chance to win the big games, Stoops has frequently done this, Brown has rarely done this. Great coaches win the big games, that is why both of these men are outside the Top 5.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:11 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,175,451 times
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After this season, I think I would have to move Urban Meyer up the list. With 2 National Titles, and an additional undefeated season with a BCS win, he should be at least number 2. If you factor in his graduation rates and recruiting, you could even make a strong case for number one.

I have a feeling he will be facing my current #1 Pete Carroll in the BCS Champ next season and that would answer the debate.

1 Carroll-Hard to argue his success
2 Meyer-Case for #1, really a tossup
3 Bowden-Just terrible in BCS games
4 Paterno-Winning coach, not a top recruiter, terrible graduation rates
5 Spurrier-Lacks any recent success
6 Tressel-Needs to win a big game for a change, outside the conference
7 Stoops-see Tressel
8 Saban-Probably low, he will move up over the next few years
9 Brown-1 Conference title, can't be the champ if you can't win the conf.
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