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Old 09-20-2013, 04:46 PM
 
2 posts, read 3,379 times
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Just coming across this forum and JHG722, you are oh so wrong. The jump from High School to College, regardless of the Divison, is a large one.

You are incredibly underestimating the differences in size, strength, speed, knowledge, and maturity of a 22 year-old college senior, and a 18 year old high school senior.

Think about special teams. Kickoff teams on high schools usually are made up of sophomores, juniors, and maybe two to three seniors. College level, probably the same. Go ahead and tell me that the high school special teams unit isn't going to be in pieces after that game.

At the skills positions, parity might be a toss up between high school and Division III athletes. If you played a 7 on 7 tournament between a Top High school and a bad Division 3 school, the high school would probably win 7-8 times out of 10. However, a top Division III school could probably hang with many D1 schools in 7 ON 7.

Add in the offensive and defensive lines. The size and skill differences between college lineman and high school lineman are INCREDIBLE. While you might see high school seniors at SKILL positions go in their freshman year and make an impact on a D1 team, you rarely, if EVER see d-lineman, o-lineman, or linebackers play even a single down their first year.

Any high-schools offensive or defensive line would be on their backs when matched up against a D3 school.

There are many, MANY, incredibly talented players in Division III who because they were too short, or just a tick too slow, didn't play D1 ball. Many high school 5A records are held by Division III players. Go ahead and look it up for yourself.

And if you REALLY think the top high school country would even stand a chance against a top D3 school like Mount Union, you are insane. The score of that game would be 72-3. The 3 being very generous.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:44 PM
 
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Older post, but I think it's been clear since 2008 that FCS teams are capable of beating FBS teams

My gut reaction was to reject any HS team beating a D3 team .... i've seen a lot of D3 athletes and the difference between them and their peers in HS is vastly different than between their peers that went larger colleges to play

Then you start to think of teams like John Curtis last year that had 17 guys on their roster that had FBS scholarship offers .... not to mention the guys who will play at the lower levels ........ then look at a team like Crown in MN last year, small D3 program that was pretty awful, half their roster as freshman, new coaching staff, etc

Here are the rosters
Curtis High School (River Ridge, LA) 2012 Football Roster

Crown College Athletics - 2012 Football Roster

Definitely no advantage to Crown in that aspect either

I think that could be a pretty good matchup and I wouldn't be surprised if the HS team pulled it out
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
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I go to Western Connecticut a division 3 school and from October 2008 to October 2012 our football team won 2 games that stretch. I have no doubt in my mind, that a good high school team from FL, CA, TX, OH would have wiped the floor against us.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:56 AM
 
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It's kind of like the perennial debate about who would win: The best college team and the worst pro team. The worst pro team, hands down.
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Old 09-29-2013, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Miami/ Washington DC
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Booker T Washington in Miami beating not just the worst D3 school but a few others too. I know crazy right? No not crazy at all. Think about it for a second.

Lets say Booker T has 6 guys who will go D-1 next year on each side of the ball. That's 12 guys who are much better right now than the vast majority of the team. There are plenty of freshman who are starters in D1. The talent in some areas of the country like Florida, Texas and Cali can't be compared to other places. I guarantee Booker T would beat say the University of Chicago. U of Chicago will have no players on their team who would go play D1 or at least start D1 while a team like Booker T has many.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
It's kind of like the perennial debate about who would win: The best college team and the worst pro team. The worst pro team, hands down.

I think that's different then college pro. Look at the Jacksonville. The Jaguars will more than likely end up being the worst team in the league and might even go winless. However, every.single.player on that team played football in college. It might not have been high caliber, FBS football, but all played football none-the-less. The you take Alabama for instance. Out of that powerhouse, how many will go onto have semi-successful NFL careers?? 5 of the 56 scholarship players if their lucky?? That's a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG difference.

Now onto the high school/college. Not all states are as successful in football then others. Take a team like Curtis from LA, that's a team that probably has 5 guys who have scholorships to SEC/Big 10/Big 12/Pac-12 schools, aka big time schools. Maybe 5 or so others will have scholarships to lower-level FBS schools (UConn, UL-Lafayette, Idaho's of the world), than maybe 10 each that'll play at FCS, Division 2 and division 3 schools, so that's around 40 people that'll be playing college football on a highly successful high school team. Taking Western Connecticut here, 90% of our players come from CT, a state barren of football talent, and maybe we have 1 or 2 players from the best high schools in the state. There's not that big of a difference in that scenario.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:44 PM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,421,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7express View Post
I think that's different then college pro. Look at the Jacksonville. The Jaguars will more than likely end up being the worst team in the league and might even go winless. However, every.single.player on that team played football in college. It might not have been high caliber, FBS football, but all played football none-the-less. The you take Alabama for instance. Out of that powerhouse, how many will go onto have semi-successful NFL careers?? 5 of the 56 scholarship players if their lucky?? That's a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG difference.

Now onto the high school/college. Not all states are as successful in football then others. Take a team like Curtis from LA, that's a team that probably has 5 guys who have scholorships to SEC/Big 10/Big 12/Pac-12 schools, aka big time schools. Maybe 5 or so others will have scholarships to lower-level FBS schools (UConn, UL-Lafayette, Idaho's of the world), than maybe 10 each that'll play at FCS, Division 2 and division 3 schools, so that's around 40 people that'll be playing college football on a highly successful high school team. Taking Western Connecticut here, 90% of our players come from CT, a state barren of football talent, and maybe we have 1 or 2 players from the best high schools in the state. There's not that big of a difference in that scenario.
Yeah ... that's kind of my thought on it as well .... you also don't have as large of an age gap/physical gap

With that example I threw out from last year where you had a very good HS team and a not so good regional team from an area that doesn't produce as much talent I think it could be really close

The D3 team had a ton of freshman .... Curtis had 17 guys with FBS offers - you'd guess that they also had a good # of people that would get offered FCS, D2, D3 & JuCo .... I could see easily 25-30 players on that team playing college ball and many at a high level - the players in the HS aren't smaller than the players at Crown either

I agree about the pro/college debate and reject that all the time ..... every NFL player was a college star and was able to beat out other college stars to make a 53 man roster

Some of these HS teams will have the bulk of their starting units play at a level greater than a bad D3 team, plus many have the continuity of coming up together and being raised in the system and can play as a team unit ..... you get a bad d3 team that is freshman heavy and it can take a while for things to start to click
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:40 AM
 
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Best HS team in US vs. Worst DIII team.... not even close, HS would destroy them
Best HS team in US vs. Best DIII team.... Id say college team -3 on the spread. They would win 60-70% of the time

Best FCS vs worst FBS team.... FCS probably a blow out as well.

There has been an all time record (14) FCS>FBS upsets this year. This is mostly because too many teams make the jump to FBS who shouldnt (in regards to competition, as apposed to finances, where its a no-brainer/money-maker) Usually these schools had a couple great years in FCS, thought they could make the jump up, and then a few years later by the time the arrangements have been made to do so, they aren't even good FCS teams anymore.
UMass is 1-15 in FBS, but played App St for the championship in '06. App St won 3 national championships, but they are 1-3 right now in the FCS, and will be FBS next year. Also Geogria State in their first years as an FBS team are 0-3 against FCS teams.

So basically the best FCS vs the worst FBS should really just be an FCS matchup.

Last edited by jasomm; 10-02-2013 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasomm View Post
Best HS team in US vs. Worst DIII team.... not even close, HS would destroy them
Best HS team in US vs. Best DIII team.... Id say college team -3 on the spread. They would win 60-70% of the time

Best FCS vs worst FBS team.... FCS probably a blow out as well.

There has been an all time record (14) FCS>FBS upsets this year. This is mostly because too many teams make the jump to FBS who shouldnt (in regards to competition, as apposed to finances, where its a no-brainer/money-maker) Usually these schools had a couple great years in FCS, thought they could make the jump up, and then a few years later by the time the arrangements have been made to do so, they aren't even good FCS teams anymore.
UMass is 1-15 in FBS, but played App St for the championship in '06. App St won 3 national championships, but they are 1-3 right now in the FCS, and will be FBS next year. Also Geogria State in their first years as an FBS team are 0-3 against FCS teams.

So basically the best FCS vs the worst FBS should really just be an FCS matchup.
I can agree with everything you posted except the Best HS team in US vs. Best D-III team comparison. In this comparison it would be +20 for the D-III team. There is still some very good talent at the D-III highest levels AND they are several years older.

Without a doubt in my mind (I played NAIA D-II) the best high school teams in the nation would beat the worst D-III (NCAA) OR D-II (NAIA) teams BADLY.

When I played many years ago I can only think of 3 teammates that I believe had enough talent to have played FBS level and only ONE would have been a regular and that was our kicker (who actually made it to the NFL for many years). We had a player who was an NAIA All-American a couple years after I transferred to a different (and much better) college that actually got a pro tryout. The way I heard it is they might have not even let him unpack after the first day of tryouts and was basically on the 1st flight home.

Now compare this to a top flight HS team with 5 or 6 FBS recruits. Seriously, we could have never competed against talent like that.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
6,536 posts, read 4,487,242 times
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UMass jumping up to FBS in football was the single dumbest move in college athletics history.
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