U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-04-2009, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,915 posts, read 6,552,644 times
Reputation: 5392

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz View Post
You really think that the Big East has come that far huh? Some guys in the south would say otherwise.

The Lions would have gone for which ever would have made them the most money.
i guess "that far" is a relative term. The Big East has come far enough to be a BCS conference. If it pales compared to the others, I don't think that is the most relevant comparison. More to the point is the Big East being where it is today in comparison to the northeast's world of the independents that Penn State chose to leave when it joined the Big Ten.

It was the need for a viable conference affiliation that it could not get at home that drove PSU to join a group of midwestern universities that were very much outside its region despite Pennsylvania sharing a border with Ohio.

Penn State saw the handwriting on the wall: the age of independents was coming to a close and a program needed to join a conference to keep its relevancy.

Indeed today, IMHO, the "exception to the rule" is playing with fire not realizing that this independent status is not a good thing to have even if you a golden dome. Notre Dame, again IMHO, is fighting the inevitable: a time when it has lost its place to truly compete without conference membership. It still can get by with its t.v. deal and other perks, but for how long? And with the BCS likely to pass at some point for a real championship set up, who is to say that ND will be embraced with special rules. More specifically, how long will that 12th slot in the B10 be there for, when filled, ND loses its best position for future success.

This all, I think, relates to Penn State, too. When ND looked at options of possible affiliation, the Big East offered something that other conferences wouldn't have offered: an opportunity to dominate the standings and to be able to exercise its weight as one slightly above the group of equals.

In essence, that might have been Penn State's option, too: choose an organization like the Big East in its own region with a chance to dominate and an influence stronger than what it would have had in older, better established conferences, as opposed to being part of the more prestigious Big Ten with more marquee match ups, but conversely with less of chance for conference titles and always being towards the top.

So, yes, I do believe that if the Big East, the way it is now constituted, was an opiton back when PSU fled to the Big Ten, the Lions may have chosen to stay at home with its own regional conference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-05-2009, 02:39 PM
 
193 posts, read 471,904 times
Reputation: 88
What will it take for The Big East to grab Penn State away from The Big Ten?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2009, 02:50 PM
 
3,157 posts, read 8,122,522 times
Reputation: 1977
It will never happen now. They are entrenched in the Big 10.

This thread was just discussing the "what if" of many years ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2009, 08:48 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,233,440 times
Reputation: 14558
It would make more sense for Penn State to switch to the Big East, Notre Dame join the Big Ten. Geographically, Notre Dame has no business in the Big East. Penn State could schedule some Big Ten teams OOC every year (Michigan State, Ohio State), to keep from playing a totally candy-ass big east schedule. This would give the Big East some much-needed credibility, with WVU and Penn State.

I think it would benefit Penn State, in the sense that they would be more likely to reach a BCS bowl every year, and they'd have WAY more scheduling options, which would give them an easier path to the national championship every year.

Only problem is that besides PA and NJ, the northeast has pitiful high school football compared to other states. Nobody recruits in New York, or the New England states. It makes much more sense to play games in places like Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois, and bring exposure to your school in those areas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2009, 01:55 PM
 
3,157 posts, read 8,122,522 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_factory View Post
It would make more sense for Penn State to switch to the Big East, Notre Dame join the Big Ten. Geographically, Notre Dame has no business in the Big East. Penn State could schedule some Big Ten teams OOC every year (Michigan State, Ohio State), to keep from playing a totally candy-ass big east schedule. This would give the Big East some much-needed credibility, with WVU and Penn State.
PSU doesn't schedule more than one out of conference away game per year. There's a lot of money to be made off of a game in Beaver Stadium. Even if they wanted to schedule big teams, most big teams have the same mentality: schedule patsies and get an extra home game. In some years, like this year, PSU isn't playing any non-conference games on the road. That pretty much rules out having more than one big non-conference rival. As mentioned in this thread, it's one of the reasons the Pitt rivalry died.

Quote:
I think it would benefit Penn State, in the sense that they would be more likely to reach a BCS bowl every year, and they'd have WAY more scheduling options, which would give them an easier path to the national championship every year.
How would they have way more scheduling options? The Big Ten plays 8 conference games a year. The Big East plays 7. So that gives PSU one more game to schedule. As I pointed out, because Beaver Stadium games are so lucrative, PSU is not going to agree to many home-and-away series with big teams.

Which leads to problem #2. All the elite conferences have 8 game schedules. So even if PSU wanted to use the extra game to play a big team, who are they going to play? They'd probably end up playing an independent like Army, Navy, or Notre Dame. That's who a few of the other Big East teams end up playing.

A Big East Penn State team would end up playing less big games and getting less television exposure. That leads to worse recruiting and becomes a vicious cycle. Back when Miami and Virginia Tech were Big East teams, it would have been a good idea, but now, why fix what ain't broke? PSU has been doing fine in the Big 10. They've established some solid rivalries and won some conference championships. They shouldn't change things up just because the Big East is more geographically convenient.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2009, 07:20 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 1,771,808 times
Reputation: 371
True, PSU shouldn't have to move conferences. But frankly I don't like scheduling of all these creampuff teams outside of conference schedules.

Still if Pitt doesn't want to be considered so unimportant to PSU, it will have to up recruiting in Western PA and get into BIG bowl games again (At least the Outback Bowl).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2009, 08:43 PM
 
3,912 posts, read 4,855,871 times
Reputation: 1825
ND football is not in the Big East. Why? I have no clue and I also hate the domers.

The big east got raped in 2003 when they lost UM, BC and VT (3 top tier FBS programs).

If ND went to the Big10 both of their major sports programs would take a hit. (Esp basketball)

No CFB rivalries should ever die, so of course PSU should play Pitt. Sorry Joepa, but Pitt vs PSU is waaaay bigger than your sorry little feelers getting hurt from some crap that happened 20 years ago.

off topic but another one that should be brought back from the old SWC is Arky and Texas. That one should have never died either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2009, 09:35 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 1,771,808 times
Reputation: 371
How much longer can the Irish stay independent I wonder, yea yea history and all that but still I wonder.

I pretty much think there is a decent chance the rivalry will comeback (provided that JoePa doesn't keep coaching till 2025!!)

All the Big East needs to do is have Pitt, WVU and Syracuse step up, USF to keep building and I guess Rutgers as well (few give em any credit though) and I think the conference in 10-15 could be where the ACC is, in gaining more respectablity.

I know the ACC isn't a powerhouse, but sometimes it seems like people think if you don't have a record like the Nitt Lions, Irish, Huskers, Longhorns or Bulldogs (history and recent) than you basically don't exist and don't deserve to be "in the big leagues", especially in terms of teh ACC and Big East.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2009, 09:50 PM
 
3,912 posts, read 4,855,871 times
Reputation: 1825
WVU was a first half injury away from making the BCS CG in 07-08. That team would have given LSU all that they could handle.(more than they could handle, IMO)

No ACC team has even smelled anything like that since '99.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2009, 09:59 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 1,771,808 times
Reputation: 371
Fair, but the ACC of now has previously dominating teams. And one thing I am finding about fan base is that they love to cite statistics from as far away has 50-60 years ago for arguments regarding legitimacy or competitiveness.

Personally, I think mythos of a long storied program is fun to recall and recite but how is what a team did in 1950 relevant to what happens today? Is there some cutoff point to legitmacy in an argument over who has a good team? (I only go back to the 90s for right now)

Getting back to that, because FSU and Miami kicked so much butt in teh 80s and 90s, people give the conference some credit, I think you can add GTech in there too for being a historically competitive team. VTech from what I read didn't matter until the 90s itself.

I am not sure how to classify Boston College yet but, I can kinda see how people call the Tobacco Road schools "basketball schools", that's what they seem to be known for. Thus with schools like Louiville and Cincy and UConn (for all the climbing they have done) to football powerhouse they are probably seem as bad imitators if only for the fact that their previous success was primarily on the court.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > College Football
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top