Higher education bubble is bursting. It doesn't get any uglier than this. (bachelor, Ivy League)

[Mach50]

Originally Posted by Katiana

If the Navy paid for your undergrad, you didn't pay for it.

You said your company paid for your master's. Perhaps I misunderstood something.

You need to read how the GI Bill works, it is a contract that you have to work for in order to gain it. I paid into it with money that I worked for.

Same thing went for my Engineering company, after 1 year of working there I was allowed to apply for TA of which I still had to work there to be reimbursed for school.

It is not like they sent me to school and then I started working for them, I worked while going to school.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Mach50

You need to read how the GI Bill works, it is a contract that you have to work for in order to gain it. I paid into it with money that I worked for.

Same thing went for my Engineering company, after 1 year of working there you are allowed to apply for TA of which you still have to work there to be reimbursed for school.

It is not like they sent me to school and then I started working for them, I worked while going to school.

Neither are quite the same as earning the entire bill yourself. I understand that you got the GI bill for serving and I congratulate you for your service. But it's not the same thing! If you want to argue that one should join the military in order to get the GI bill, that's a different issue.

As for your master's, it was a perk of the company you worked for that you got what you did. You could do the same job for another company and not get tuition reimbursement. I know how tuition reimb. works b/c I, too, have worked for places that offer it. I've also worked at places that don't. Again, if you're suggesting going to work at a company that offers tuition assistance, I am in complete agreement.

[Mach50]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Neither are quite the same as earning the entire bill yourself. I understand that you got the GI bill for serving and I congratulate you for your service. But it's not the same thing! If you want to argue that one should join the military in order to get the GI bill, that's a different issue.

I have also worked at places with tuition reimbursement, and again, if the company is paying for it, you are not. If you TA'd, that's a different situation. I have worked the same job at companies that don't offer tuition reimbursement, no matter how long you work there. It's a perk from the company.

My point was not to join the military to get the GI Bill (which is still working BTW).

My point is that too many people see student loans as the only way to get a degree. I'd recommend (especially while you are young) to work, by any means, to pay for school. That way when you graduate the sacrifice will be over and you owe nothing. It can only go up from there. My brother paid for school while working nights at a collections agency for example. He is getting his degree in Accounting and will probably make 55k starting with 0 student loans. Again totally worth it.

The college degree is fine, it's going in debt that is not fine....that's the point.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Mach50

The college degree is fine, it's going in debt that is not fine....that's the point.

Agreed, although I do think it is OK to take on some debt to get an education. It amazes me that people will pay for a Starbuck's with a credit card, take a car loan, etc, but wouldn't dream of borrowing money for an education!

[Mach50]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Agreed, although I do think it is OK to take on some debt to get an education. It amazes me that people will pay for a Starbuck's with a credit card, take a car loan, etc, but wouldn't dream of borrowing money for an education!

It amazes me how many kids get student loans so they can pay for a $5 latte, while not working and going to class. It amazes me how many people get student loans to pay for their car, while not working and going to school.

[John23]

Originally Posted by Lily2204

Everyone loves to bash higher education, it seems that several threads are started every day saying how worthless college is and how no one should go. Seriously.. no one is holding a gun to your head! If you don't want to go then don't go! I suspect that anyone trying to dissuade other people from going is either bitter that they never had the chance to go or unemployed and trying to weed out competition. The mountains of research and statistics that show the relationship between education level and income are not a lie, but one of the great things about this country is that you are free to believe whatever rubbish you want to believe. Don't go to college if you think it's such a terrible thing - let us know how that works out for you!

It is worthless by and large. You can go to the library and rent books for free. The same books and instruction that you would pay thousands for in college. Not in every subject obviously, like medicine or a hard science. But there are so many soft sciences being taught, and so many flimsy, pc degrees (like womens studies). Much of what is being taught now in college is at the corner of your local library.

The article says most college grads are below proficiency in verbal and quantitative literacy. If you're below proficiency, its not worth as much as so many people think it is.

-They do hold a figurative gun to your head in highschool.

A. They don't teach you to trust yourself or your own abilities. K-12 is all about transfering that trust to teachers, counselors, "experts", who think that so many in highschool have to go to college.
B. They fill your head with horror stories in highschool....like if you don't graduate, you'll be a loser forever. You'll work at McDonalds. You're a dropout. The dreaded D word. Can't have that. Highschool is like a cult. They don't want anyone to leave.

C. They minimize or deride alternatives to 4 year schools. Technical/vocational schools are below your potential or capability. Community college is the 13th grade.

D. They rush you and confuse you in highschool. They get you way below the age of being able to make truely independent and adult like decisions. At what age do you start thinking about the SAT? 15? And all these application deadlines and hoops to jump through. They want you to commit early. I think thats the game.

And they don't really teach practical alternatives like entrepreneurship, or an apprenticeship of some type. Its a scam, plain and simple. By minimizing or eliminating alternatives. Then pushing everyone into bloated, overpriced, watered down 4 year schools, whether they should be there or not.

I have a degree, but at the same time, its an outrageous scam. I would love to see them all go broke. They've gamed the system for far too long. Time to adapt and get into the real world. They're the antithesis of what it means to really succeed in this country.

[brooklynborndad]

Re the OP

What if you had a product so lousy NO one wanted to buy it, you had to give it away free at metro stations, and tossing it on peoples driveways. What if people didnt even bother taking it in from their driveways, cause its so lousy, and then discovered that they should have, cause when we get a heavy rain the Washington Examiners on your driveway repulp themselves, and thats not easy to clean off.


I mean the Washington Examiner talking about product quality, is just so rich.

[texdav]

Bascailly I thnik alot of degrees are worthless in todays colleges. But those that are needed will still be the ones that make the money unless you are bascailly self employed or very skilled thru years of working at lower wages. In fact what has been shown is that people need more training in college not less. lok at the income difference just overall say alot.The difference is those college degrees that have no real demand and are just easy have never really paidoff to any degree.

[jtur88]

It is currently costing about $10K per year per pupil to get them through grade 12. That $130K lifetime per student. In constant dollars, that is four times what it cost in 1960.

Assuming (as I believe is true) that high school costs more than elementary, the cost of a high school student getting grade 12 education may be about $13K, which is the average cost of tuition and fees at a public university for an instate student in most states.

Considering that, why do we have such a shrill insistence that kids finish Grade 12, and such a dogged resistance to them starting "Grade 13", if the cost of both is the same?

[Randomstudent]

Originally Posted by Backliteyes

Parents should definitely advise their children on what careers and majors end up being the most high-earning, and which do not.

In the end most people allow their kids to pursue whatever degree they want in college, but I would want my kids to be aware of the fact that I'm not going to be sympathetic to their money woes after college so it will behoove them to major in something that will give them the best chance of being able to support themselves comfortably.

Ok...let me put this as plainly as possible.

Yes it is good for parents to council their children. We agree on this.

It is, however; unreasonable to expect your parents to be able to guide you to a major that on its own merits will enable you to retire at 40.