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I have a friend who's getting a BA from University of Phoenix. I think the tuition they charge is horrible, but her dad is paying for it.
From what I've seen, the for-profit universities operate around the needs of students, instead of what the professors want.
They "get it" that most people have to work and earn a degree at the same time. Public universities still operate as if everyone is from the mold of going to college right after high school whose parents are paying the tuition bill and the kids can pay the rest with a part time job. That reality went away more than 20 years ago, but the public universities don't seem to get that
So true. Then you have high school students and parents stressing out trying to get their kid to join in all sorts of activities outside the classroom while still maintaining GPA cause GPA and test scores are not enough today to get someone in college unless they're from the right minority. Not everyone has the financial independence to commit to a 4 year full time education studying courses that are worthless for their career choice. Oh, and some public universities are in some ways for profit. Don't some college professors regularly assign their students to purchase the text book that the professor wrote? Can you say "stroking the ego"?
They're known to be a scam. I know people with room temperature Iqs exist that go to these schools, but shouldn't the government have shut them down already?
No, because when the government can dictate what you can learn and where you can learn it, you will only be able to learn what the government wants you to.
For profit "universities" are an unfortunate but easily avoidable price for freedom.
Basically for-profits promote themselves as the "easy-way" to get a degree. This is in all of their advertising and it is a large part of why have been so successful. After all espousing to people that they can get something seen as desirable, which normally requires a lot of work and effort, quickly, and easily is the oldest scam in the book.
They say ignore our outrageous tuition and low reputation, because we make college easy. This is also part of why places like University of Phoenix have 16% graduation rates (and as low as 4% for some programs). The fact of the matter is college should be time consuming and difficult, it should not be something "easy," because then it is not worth anything. With these "easy" for-profits at best folks will fail out quickly because they were not prepared for the workload, at worse they barely graduate with a worthless degree that they have not put effort into earning and paid five or six figures for a scrap of paper. College should be accessible financially speaking, but to be worth anything it needs to be taken seriously and treated like a job. If a person cannot, or is unwilling to do this chances are they should not go to college. With that said many people abhor the idea of actually working for something, especially if they are not getting paid and this is why the scam is so effective. For-profits basically promote themselves as get your degree the quick and easy over 2-3 years of taking online classes, you don't need to show up to a building, and goddess forbid you actually follow a fixed schedule given to you, it's not like you have to do those things for a job or anything.
On the other hand to attend a traditional *real* college and have it be worth something a person has to be dedicated and make a real commitment to move to a place and show up everyday on time in order to get the grades. Colleges are not restaurants, they should not revolve around people's work schedules, or cater to a lazy student's whim. The fact is one is not paying tens of thousands of dollars for a scrap of paper unless that person is an idiot. What a person is paying for in college is an experience that is supposed to impart critical thinking mixed with self discipline. This is the real value of a college degree and real colleges have often had centuries to figure out how to impart this, something that most go-to-online-college-in-your-boxers for profits don't have the benefit of or do that well.
Public universities are now making a huge push for online eduction. Of course you will still have to be smart enough to get in which is the problem for many of those that go with private colleges.
I think you mean non-profit (if that's the right term) versus for-profit... Yale and Harvard are private universities, in case you have forgotten.
Colleges are not restaurants, they should not revolve around people's work schedules, or cater to a lazy student's whim. The fact is one is not paying tens of thousands of dollars for a scrap of paper unless that person is an idiot. What a person is paying for in college is an experience that is supposed to impart critical thinking mixed with self discipline. This is the real value of a college degree and real colleges have often had centuries to figure out how to impart this, something that most go-to-online-college-in-your-boxers for profits don't have the benefit of or do that well.
You had me until the above paragraph. So someone trying to improve themselves while working full time to provide food and shelter to their family should not go to college? If a person is paying for an experience that is supposed to impart critical thinking mixed with self discipline then most universities are completely failing at their purpose because there are many employees I work with who have a degree that are seriously lacking in critical thinking and self discipline. Binge drinking, date rape, illegal drug use, and having unprotected sex are not signs of critical thinking and self discipline. Someone who is committed to supporting his or her family while working fully time and wanting to continue his/her education in the hopes of getting a better paying job is a better student prospect than a spoiled rotten 18 year old kid of parents with money.
You had me until the above paragraph. So someone trying to improve themselves while working full time to provide food and shelter to their family should not go to college? If a person is paying for an experience that is supposed to impart critical thinking mixed with self discipline then most universities are completely failing at their purpose because there are many employees I work with who have a degree that are seriously lacking in critical thinking and self discipline. Binge drinking, date rape, illegal drug use, and having unprotected sex are not signs of critical thinking and self discipline. Someone who is committed to supporting his or her family while working fully time and wanting to continue his/her education in the hopes of getting a better paying job is a better student prospect than a spoiled rotten 18 year old kid of parents with money.
Traditional colleges do have night class, so there is still the opportunity to go, but it will be like a second job. It is difficult, but doable, I know because I did it for a while (40 hours + night classes) and I remain unconvinced that colleges should change and bend to the needs of any one student, or small group of students. In fact, I oppose it vigorously because it ultimately cheapens my degree, my achievement.
On top that it is probably true of that there are people with degrees who lack skills in self discipline and critical thinking, but I would bet you that there are a far greater percentage of people without degrees who lack those skills then people with degrees. This is simply because without those skills people tend to fail out of college. I have seen this first hand, if you don't show up for classes and exams, and don't do the work you fail, this is why even many legitimate universities have 50-70% graduation rates. On top of that legitimate college admissions (not the sales teams at for-profits) do perform a reasonable job of screening out applicants who cannot make the cut.
Next the fact of the matter is you can paint fictional people as deserving anyway you want, but that is simply the reality of how things are. Are there some deserving people who would succeed in college who don't get to go, probably, are there some undeserving people who happened to be born into money who get everything on a silver platter, also likely. Is this the norm. Most certainly not, and quite frankly while "someone who is hard working...etc." may be more deserving of a college degree then an 18 year old out of high school, the fact is it is very possible that they really are not the better student. You may not like this, but it is very often the case. It makes no sense to destroy a system that has worked perfectly well since the dawn of America just because it reflects pretty much everything else regarding capitalism and the balance of wealth and merit in America. In fact, it is likely that the changes wrought by for-profit schools and their easy access to government FAFSA money, are part of the reason why there is an overall decline in the value of a college degree and the caliber of degree holders there are out there.
Finally, I sincerely doubt colleges are full of binge drinking, drug addicted rapists. That is just a worthless hyperbole.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 12-21-2010 at 12:45 AM..
I wish these scam schools will just shut down already. Many colleges offer online courses for those who have kids to take care of at home.
The degree is spat upon in the employment world. It is not considered a real degree. You will get laughed out of job interviews - Do you think an employer is going to hire someone from Yale vs a person who has a degree from Devry University? Your chances of getting a job are slim to none.
Most of the people who attend these scam schools are dumb as rocks. If you cannot get into a REAL school you are borderline retarded. And on top of that if you cannot make at least a 2.0 GPA in high school you should not be in college anyway. The parents of these idiots are just glad that their child got accepted into any school. They MAKE you pass and the curriculum is made for you to pass. They just want students to take out ungodly student loan amounts so they can be in debt the rest of their lives. But they can't pay it off because they have a useless degree.
These schools should shut down immediately. I cannot believe they are allowed to get away with their scandals. If you are planning on attending a for-profit school please, please, consider other options. My buisness does not hire anyone that has a degree from ITT Tech, Devry, Art Institute, Kaplan, etc.
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