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It's obvious that your life is just grand and that things have worked out for you. That's great. However, not everyone takes the same road and or thinks the same. It's nice that you have an answer for everyone. Your almost god-like.
It's so easy to sit there and point the finger and have an answer for everything. However, you have not walked through any of these peoples shoes. So what do you really know? Other than psych b.s. 101. It all sounds good, but unfortunately "life" doesn't come so neatly packaged. Many posters were misled. I know in your infinite wisdom that that would be impossible, but it's not. You also have to realize everyone thinks differently. We are all not as wise as you. Cut some of us some slack. Some of us actually believe what people tell us. Not all of us are masters of spotting deception. Not all of us know exactly what we want to do when we are teenagers. And as far as every degree that anyone gets is their choice entirely. That is not true either. Some schools don't offer some degrees. And it is already proven that many students have been misled to believe that there are many jobs available in said field.
And the thing about, people choose a path in college that they really "love" or really want to do. That is simply not true. Actually most of my friends who went to school for one thing, yet did another. And most of them never "loved" what they originally got a degree in. Many do it for money or because they don't exactly know what they want to do yet. So they pick something respectable (or so they think) and hope or assume they will eventually like it.
You seem to have an answer for everything. I am glad things worked out for you, but it is not everyones fault that they don't hit a home run in life. There are a million other factors that you so easily discount. But keep looking at life through those rose colored binoculars, because some day, all of this judgement, attitude, and disdain that you appear to have for so many some how some way is going to bite you in your as s.
Be careful who you judge. For every finger that you point at someone else, there are two pointing back at you..
Well, I'm certainly glad to see that your post was a veritable beacon of non-judgment.
Y'know, in my current field, I work with severely developmentally disabled students...kids who many might say have gotten pretty sh*t on by life, and haven't had a fair crack at too much of anything, through absolutely no fault of their own, kids who many might say just keep getting kicked back down by life every time they make a little bit of progress, who just never get a break, it seems. You can think I'm a crappy, heartless, unsympathetic person all you want, neither here nor there to me, but the truth is, I simply have a really hard time when I have this perspective being a part of my daily life, to then listen to/read about competely able-bodied people of sound mind throwing massive pity parties about all the stuff they were owed that they didn't get. I have a hard time mustering much sympathy when people don't take the time to think for themselves, take charge of their own lives to the best of their abilities, squander opportunities they were given, and have the temerity to play the "I got cheated" card.
I'm sorry, not to play the whole "waaah, the poor disabled kids" card, but come ON. A little perspective, please, regarding personal accountability and how ridiculous it is to sit back and complain about your raw deal and blame it on others, instead of just looking at is for what it is, a raw deal, and get about to fixing it by dealing with whatever's within your control to do so. Complaining about how life ain't fair never solved a thing.
Last edited by TabulaRasa; 02-13-2011 at 07:16 PM..
It's entertaining to watch people who bungled their college years place the blame on the colleges. I think to myself, all this deception in advertising out there, and you're going to pick colleges as your main target? Really? At least there's a grain of truth in most college advertisements, and if you talk to someone at a university, it's usually not going to be a slick salesman type, given the nature of universities. Contrast that with buying a car -- the advertisements are complete bunk and the salesmen are playing a game with you. I guess some people will do anything to explain away their personal failures.
It is entertaining to watch people make excuses for colleges when you are currently enrolled and get to watch the ripoff on a daily basis.
Why do you want to give some BS artists a pass? I also do not understand this.
Well, I'm certainly glad to see that your post was a veritable beacon of non-judgment.
Y'know, in my current field, I work with severely developmentally disabled students...kids who many might say have gotten pretty sh*t on by life, and haven't had a fair crack at too much of anything, through absolutely no fault of their own, kids who many might say just keep getting kicked back down by life every time they make a little bit of progress, who just never get a break, it seems. You can think I'm a crappy, heartless, unsympathetic person all you want, neither here nor there to me, but the truth is, I simply have a really hard time when I have this perspective being a part of my daily life, to then listen to/read about competely able-bodied people of sound mind throwing massive pity parties about all the stuff they were owed that they didn't get. I have a hard time mustering much sympathy when people don't take the time to think for themselves, take charge of their own lives to the best of their abilities, squander opportunities they were given, and have the temerity to play the "I got cheated" card.
I'm sorry, not to play the whole "waaah, the poor disabled kids" card, but come ON. A little perspective, please, regarding personal accountability and how ridiculous it is to sit back and complain about your raw deal and blame it on others, instead of just looking at is for what it is, a raw deal, and get about to fixing it by dealing with whatever's within your control to do so. Complaining about how life ain't fair never solved a thing.
For one, I never complained and said that I got cheated. I said I was misled, just like so many have, which you so easily discarded. You work with disadvantaged youth....kudos to you. I did too at one time. Doesn't change anything anyone else has said. I think you are missing the point. I don't think people are whining and feeling entitled. I think the majority of posters felt misled, just as I had.
You mentioned a part about people thinking for themselves. Information is key in life. Asking questions when we don't know is about the best thing a person can do. It seem like a lot of people on here including me did that only to be misled. Most people at 19 don't really have a clue, especially something as big as a career. When they don't know-they ask. Unfortunately college is not set up anymore for the student. It's a big money business. So these kids "are" being misled, wheather you want to believe it or not. There are countless articles within the last few years that state this. These are not my opinions; however, I can coroberate my own experience with these facts that have been presented to us as of late.
And fyi, most people who go to college, (wheather their heart is completely in it or not) are trying to take charge of their life. They have been sold this false bill of goods that having a college degree will enhance their lives. Is this entitlement. I don't think so. It's false advertisement. But you can call it anything you want. Like I said before, your wisdom on here is completely unparallel. Once again, unfortunately not everyone has the intelligence or fortitude to see into the future.
And no I don't think you'r a crappy, heartless person. Simply put, your probably a very nice person. But if I must say, your biggest problem is that you ignore every other variable in life that many people had to endure. It's not your fault though. You only have your own experiences in life to go by. Apparently yours has turned out well. But there are real reasons, wheather you want to acknowledge them or not, why many people with degrees are struggling.
In an ideal world your theory sounds great, unfortunately we all come from different backgrounds and the array of other issues as factors can't simply be ignored. This pull yourself up by your own bootstraps thing is a thing of the past. Just to illustrate some examples: Most kids at eighteen or nineteen haven't even gone through puberty yet. In five to ten years the way they perceive life will be different, but that is not to discount other issues. For instance, money, mental illness, uncertain what they want to do at that point in life. Doing things for the family. Trying to impress mommy and daddy so if they are uncertain themeselves of what they want, they might wind up taking a major that daddy did, etc, etc. Mental illness is rampant today. Not everyone has the fortitude and drive to set forth and pursue all of the examples that you have given. Drug addiction, gambling, etc, etc, the list goes on. Just because someone is in college, doesn't mean that they don't have many other problems. Should they be in college at that point? That is a whole other topic. But sometimes pressure from family members, friends, etc causes many who are unsure of what to do to start something that they are not prepared for.
Nothing that I say or that you say is as simple as that. You disregard almost every other factor. Your theory would work if everyone had the same makeup, disposition, drive, etc. But unfortunately we don't. For every person alive is a person with a whole set of problems. Some are worse than others, and vica versa.
But this entitlement thing that you keep spouting out is getting quite old. You make it sound so pathetic, or like such a bad thing. If people didn't think college would better their life, then they most likely wouldn't go. Entitlement has nothing to do with it. From most posters I don't think they feel entitled as much as I think that they feel duped, conned or cheated. Like I said in some previous post, and no this is not my opinion it is fact. In the long run, people now make more money than those who go to school. You have to factor in all of those years that you were in school, many sacrifice years of full time work, all the money spent on books, travel, etc. The loans that must be paid back, etc, etc.
Thirty years ago a college grad made several thousand dollars in a lifetime more than someone who didn't go to school. This idea or thought process has been integrated in most peoples minds from the very start of life. So of course many people will feel some sense of entitlement, right or wrong if they went to college. It's like if you paid a hundred grand for a ferrari, wouldn't you expect it to go faster than a Honda Civic? And if it didn't wouldn't you feel a bit uneased if the world around you were telling you to shut up and stop whining, and that you weren't conned or duped, but just wrong for having such expectations. I know it's an awful example, but I am sure you get the point.
Last edited by supermanpansy; 02-14-2011 at 12:15 PM..
Thirty years ago a college grad made several thousand dollars in a lifetime more than someone who didn't go to school. This idea or thought process has been integrated in most peoples minds from the very start of life. So of course many people will feel some sense of entitlement, right or wrong if they went to college. It's like if you paid a hundred grand for a ferrari, wouldn't you expect it to go faster than a Honda Civic? And if it didn't wouldn't you feel a bit uneased if the world around you were telling you to shut up and stop whining, and that you weren't conned or duped, but just wrong for having such expectations. I know it's an awful example, but I am sure you get the point.
NO!! The facts are that 30 years ago, non-college grads made 15% less than college grads. In 2008 (mid-recession), non-college grads were making 42% less than college grads. College grad salaries are remaining fairly stagnant, but non-college grads continue to earn less & less & less. The income gap is GROWING, not shrinking as you are, again, "mis-led" to believe.
Here are the FACTS about college degrees & income potential:
This report (link below) graphs the average salary in constant 2008 dollars from 1980 to 2008 (mid-recession). Interestingly enough, the average salary (in 2008 dollars) of a college gradauate has remained fairly stagnant through the years: $52,300 for males in 1980 and $55,000 in 2008. However, the average salary for someone with only a GED/High School Diploma has decreased by 38% in the past 28 years. In 1980, a male with a GED/HSD made an average salary of $44,200 (15% less than his college educated friends). By 2008, a male with a GED/HSD made an average salary of $32,000 (42% less than his college educated friends).
Year -HSD/ GED Average Salary -Bachelors Degree or Higher
1980 -$44,200 -$52,300
1985 -$40,000 -$54,800
1990 -$36,300 -$52,300
1995 -$33,900 -$52,700
2000 -$36,300 -$57,500
2005 -$33,100 -$55,100
2008 -$32,000 -$55,000
Even after counting the 4 years someone could have worked instead of going to college, the average college graduate male with a 40 year career will earn ON AVERAGE, AT LEAST $792,000 MORE than someone who didn't go to college.
The gap is still growing.....In 2000, GED/HSD males made 37% less than college educated males. By 2005, it had climbed to 40% less. Just 3 years later in 2008, it grew again to be 42% less. If the gap continues to expand that rapidly, by the time this college generation graduates, the average male GED/HSD salary will be $19,190 (in 2008 dollars) and the average male College Grad salary will still be in the $55,000-65,000 range.
NO!! The facts are that 30 years ago, non-college grads made 15% less than college grads. In 2008 (mid-recession), non-college grads were making 42% less than college grads. College grad salaries are remaining fairly stagnant, but non-college grads continue to earn less & less & less. The income gap is GROWING, not shrinking as you are, again, "mis-led" to believe.
Here are the FACTS about college degrees & income potential:
This report (link below) graphs the average salary in constant 2008 dollars from 1980 to 2008 (mid-recession). Interestingly enough, the average salary (in 2008 dollars) of a college gradauate has remained fairly stagnant through the years: $52,300 for males in 1980 and $55,000 in 2008. However, the average salary for someone with only a GED/High School Diploma has decreased by 38% in the past 28 years. In 1980, a male with a GED/HSD made an average salary of $44,200 (15% less than his college educated friends). By 2008, a male with a GED/HSD made an average salary of $32,000 (42% less than his college educated friends).
Year -HSD/ GED Average Salary -Bachelors Degree or Higher
1980 -$44,200 -$52,300
1985 -$40,000 -$54,800
1990 -$36,300 -$52,300
1995 -$33,900 -$52,700
2000 -$36,300 -$57,500
2005 -$33,100 -$55,100
2008 -$32,000 -$55,000
Even after counting the 4 years someone could have worked instead of going to college, the average college graduate male with a 40 year career will earn ON AVERAGE, AT LEAST $792,000 MORE than someone who didn't go to college.
The gap is still growing.....In 2000, GED/HSD males made 37% less than college educated males. By 2005, it had climbed to 40% less. Just 3 years later in 2008, it grew again to be 42% less. If the gap continues to expand that rapidly, by the time this college generation graduates, the average male GED/HSD salary will be $19,190 (in 2008 dollars) and the average male College Grad salary will still be in the $55,000-65,000 range.
This is exactly what is occurring..jobs that do not require a college degree pay less and less. Jobs (Careers) that require a college degree normally pay a good salary that has increased over time. However, that does not mean that a person with a college degree will make more money if they have to take a job that does not require a college degree. This is the position that so many college graduates, and not just recent ones, are finding themselves in. Here is my example. I graduated with a degree in Biological Science in 1986. I went into an environmental field and had a very good career for almost 20 years. I also went back to school nights and weekends, and obtained an MBA in 1998. My salary went up every year and by my last year in that field, it was over $60,000. Unfortunately, around that time, my company was bought out and I ended up leaving much earlier than I had anticipated. I am currently working part-time in retail (Thank God my husband has a good job) for $9.00 an hour and I have not received a raise in over 3 years. I still hope for better and am always looking for a better job that will utilize my education but the economy is not so great and I am almost 50.
This is exactly what is occurring..jobs that do not require a college degree pay less and less. Jobs (Careers) that require a college degree normally pay a good salary that has increased over time. However, that does not mean that a person with a college degree will make more money if they have to take a job that does not require a college degree. This is the position that so many college graduates, and not just recent ones, are finding themselves in. Here is my example. I graduated with a degree in Biological Science in 1986. I went into an environmental field and had a very good career for almost 20 years. I also went back to school nights and weekends, and obtained an MBA in 1998. My salary went up every year and by my last year in that field, it was over $60,000. Unfortunately, around that time, my company was bought out and I ended up leaving much earlier than I had anticipated. I am currently working part-time in retail (Thank God my husband has a good job) for $9.00 an hour and I have not received a raise in over 3 years. I still hope for better and am always looking for a better job that will utilize my education but the economy is not so great and I am almost 50.
Understood- but if one never gets a college degree, one almost never has the opportunity to even interview for those jobs that pay more money. I am sorry you lost your job, but the fact of the matter still is, you DO have a leg up on other job-seekers when "college degree mandatory" jobs arise because you have one. Hope things turn around for you!
Both lawyers and law students are getting into worse debt than any other profession. Let's not be unrealistic here: the job market is garbage for all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn
I agree. I think college is most useful, for those that need to attend, in order to be trained for their profession. I'm speaking of medical school, law school, and teaching. Many careers don't require a college degree. And they can be lucrative.
I know a cab driver, who says that he makes $5K a month. He never went to college. This man bought properties, and says that he wants to make money off of them, and then he can retire at 60, and be well-off.
Oh boy. And to think, for decades these sneaky Liberal Arts grads have been fooling employers to recruit and hire them in droves. Someone should start a thread warning employers that they are being had...big time!
On a more serious note, I think I see the root of the OP's problem. He wants to pursue a career in geography, but struggles with GIS. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but GIS is a pretty critical part of any geography career tract. To not understand it well would be like an accountant telling a potential employer that he does not know how to add or subtract or use a calculator.
Now, OP, is it possible since you have all this time on your hands, being unemployed and all, that you could focus on getting really good at GIS? I mean, you claim you're long-term unemployed. What does that equate to, 99 weeks? In that 99 weeks, couldn't you have sat down and studied GIS thoroughly and got to know it better? Couldn't you have taken some classes for cheap at the local community college to help strengthen your weaknesses with GIS? What is stopping your from becoming a real expert at GIS other than you simply don't like it or want to?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the underlying reason for your thread (though perhaps you think it does since liberal arts majors are dummies???). You can't get a job with your geography degrees, but your friends can. Are their degrees somehow more valuable than yours? Didn't you go to the same schools? Study the same courses? Ah, but their degrees are not worthless because they have a skill that is essential in the field: GIS. Alas !!!
Now I can tell you that I'm 25 and I make in the lower- to mid- $40k range. Honestly, that's not bad in this economy. I have a social science degree. Do you think I'm some sort of special case? Well, I'm not. I'm just playing my cards right, is all. You need to have a more optimistic outlook. Now, honestly, go start learning GIS if you want to pursue geography as a career. We're about to find out now if you're even worthy of your degrees, or if you're just a chronic complainer/trollish thread starter.
Good luck!
Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 02-14-2011 at 04:16 PM..
Understood- but if one never gets a college degree, one almost never has the opportunity to even interview for those jobs that pay more money. I am sorry you lost your job, but the fact of the matter still is, you DO have a leg up on other job-seekers when "college degree mandatory" jobs arise because you have one. Hope things turn around for you!
You are right, and I am motivated to use that leg up. I'm preparing a newer resume and thinking about what direction to go in. I am very fortunate to have an MBA, as that gives me more options. I have to admit that I think my age is going to make it a little more difficult. I can't really complain about anything though. Life is good. I always remember one thing my mother told me, that my education is something that no one can ever take away from me.
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Back to the OP's root problem
!!! 