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Old 02-23-2011, 09:39 PM
 
6,046 posts, read 6,184,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
So aside from the differences in skill sets we both acquired from our own program, how is our experience at the university level any different?

Basically, you're learning one skill set and I've learned another. Will your skill set be more valuable than mine? That depends on the labor market and other economic conditions I guess. I don't really care though.

I'm not an English major, but for example, they spend a lot of their time building on their writing skills. And when I say writing skills, I don't mean they're learning on how to compose a sentence and spell correctly. They're working on the creative aspects of it. They're working on persuasion techniques. They're working on efficiency; expressing their ideas as succinctly and straight to the point as possible.

One person might think that these skills are completely useless and non-practical, but another person might feel that's where their strengths lie and they want to build on it. And quite often, I've witnessed these people make lucrative careers in business, marketing, advertising, journalism, editing, teaching, etc. They have a skill, it's just not one you're interested in. That's fine. But there's no reason to insult these people by saying all that they have worked on is worthless. How would you feel if some ignorant, arrogant person came along and said going to a 4th tier school like New Mexico State is worthless?

Both in my experience with English majors and the data that is available suggest that these people are not necessarily living a life of poverty. Sure, that kind emotional, unsupported hoopla flows freely on forums such as this. But they're nothing more than someone's opinion. Nothing supports it other than that individual's stubborn, pre-conceived worldview.
The point is if you're going to college to get a job, you need college. You need college to prove to employers that you're competent.

If you just want to learn, you don't need a piece of paper to prove that you learned. All that matters is if you know you learned.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:46 PM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,084,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_data91 View Post
The point is if you're going to college to get a job, you need college. You need college to prove to employers that you're competent.

If you just want to learn, you don't need a piece of paper to prove that you learned. All that matters is if you know you learned.
Yes, and it also depends on how you want you want to spend your career. I don't think we're in disagreement on anything. I'm just pointing out that even though certain degrees might not be worth as much as others, it doesn't make them worthless. They just can't necessarily be used for what one person might feel is worthwhile and practical. To each his own.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:59 PM
 
6,046 posts, read 6,184,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
Yes, and it also depends on how you want you want to spend your career. I don't think we're in disagreement on anything. I'm just pointing out that even though certain degrees might not be worth as much as others, it doesn't make them worthless. They just can't necessarily be used for what one person might feel is worthwhile and practical. To each his own.
If someone uses their degree to get a job, then they went to college to get a job. I'm not saying the only purpose of college is to get a job.

But for the average person in college, I think one of the reasons they're in college is to acquire skills and get a job when they graduate.

I don't understand why someone would spend money (theirs or someone else's) to go to college just to learn for the sake of learning with no desire to get a job with the skills they learn.
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:18 PM
 
2,286 posts, read 1,084,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_data91 View Post
I don't understand why someone would spend money (theirs or someone else's) to go to college just to learn for the sake of learning with no desire to get a job with the skills they learn.
Ah, I see what you're saying. Probably because they come from wealth and have no concept of value. They may just be going with the flow. Who knows.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:16 AM
 
4,559 posts, read 4,068,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
I'm sorry, but this is just silly. Have you ever been in a college classroom? No, not a junior college knockoff classroom, not a UPhoenix classroom, not some 3rd or 4th tier college classroom. But a classroom of a good quality, top tier college/university.

You could make the generalization about most other subjects as well. Most programmers I know are self-taught, for example. So why go to college to study programming when you can go to the library? I can read about biology, physics, mathematics, English Lit, politics, economics, law, etc., at the library, too. There are plenty of reasons you go to a good, quality institution.

First, you're exposed to a plethora of other intelligent views. You're forced to articulate and defend your thoughts. That is a skill my friend, and you won't learn that from picking up a book at the library. And you certainly won't learn it from debating the plethora of trolls frolicking around random Internet forums.

Second, you have access to the most brilliant minds in your field of study at a GOOD institution. Most of these people have done more in ten years than your average C-D troll will do in his/her lifetime. Accessibility to these people can have a huge impact on your personal development and overall career success. Think about the people they might know. Think networking opportunities galore.

Third, you're actually forced to follow through, or else fail and waste your money. How many people say they're going to do something, but never follow through? Umm, just about everybody I know. At a good school, you're held accountable. Having the thought in your brain to go to the library means nothing. And even if you do go, it doesn't mean you're going to learn anything. Who will test your knowledge?

The whole "why don't you just go to the library" idea is absurd. People who don't go to college use this excuse. People who didn't go to a good college use this excuse. People who attended a good college understand the value and importance of their experience.

What's funny is you never consider HOW these schools came about!

Yes, people who love learning didn't learn any way they can!

-Oh, and reading does MOST of that (Although yoru right about the discussion and such that can be done anywhere 2 people are)

Now, I don't profess to be any 'Ivey League' type person, but Ole Miss isn't 'your town community collage'
Nor is the University of Southern Alabama the bottom of the barrel ether.

And I'd say you were EXACTLY WRONG.

One of my Favorate Mark Twain Quotes is:
"Never let your schooling interfere with your education"

I'm currently attending a pretty decent 'state school' and in the top three in my Area of study.

After this semester is over I will only have 2 'core classes' till my degree, and I can definitively state that I could have, and have learned more from reading on my own.

-Or my internship.

Ether VASTLY outweighs the 'schooling' (And As I said, this school is VERY well thought of in the career field)

People do this thing with the collective of knowledge.

They put them in books.

It takes discipline, and many people don't have it. (Hell, I need more of it. I'm usually on here taking a break from the dry reading, giving myself tonight off)

And there are things (Like GIS for me) that I doubt I would have got without a teacher.

But IMHO your view is flawed and incorrect.

Many of 'the most brilliant minds' (Excluding a few fields) AREN'T AT the schools. They are out applying their knowledge/skills and making MONEY.

Secondly... these guys tend to WRITE...

So read.

As to not going to the library... a lot of people don't go to class ether!

Alot of people who paid a lot of money to study books they could have read on their own, or somewhere less price-inflated make your excuses.

BTDT, had the Tshirt, but it wore out.

Why do you think CLEPing exists?
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:17 AM
 
4,559 posts, read 4,068,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_data91 View Post
If someone uses their degree to get a job, then they went to college to get a job. I'm not saying the only purpose of college is to get a job.

But for the average person in college, I think one of the reasons they're in college is to acquire skills and get a job when they graduate.

I don't understand why someone would spend money (theirs or someone else's) to go to college just to learn for the sake of learning with no desire to get a job with the skills they learn.

I've taken classes just because I want to KNOW.

But I'm after the piece of paper and the letters after my name!
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:41 AM
 
920 posts, read 763,360 times
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A report was recently released that analyzed college students two years after their enrollment. What was discovered was that nearly half (48%) had not gained any appreciable knowledge during that period of time. Few read more than a hundred pages a year, weren't pushed in their classes, and had basically wasted their time while accumulating thousands of dollars of debt. And to underscore the fact that unis know that they're running a scam, the unis that allowed their students to be part of the study did so as long as the researchers refused to publicly divulge the schools.

If this is true, and after going back to college for a second time, I can testify that yeah, it is, then most college students would have been better served if they had never been allowed onto the campus. How much more did the other 52% know from the time they first ventured into college? Probably not much, but they have debt. Which is the point, unis are becoming nothing more than debt mills for the banks that make the student loans. This is a damning indictment of the functionaries that run our universities. And whatever piece of paper you get, based on this level of malfeasance, isn't worth much. But damn are we programmed to think that it is....
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Michissippi
2,797 posts, read 4,655,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
I want to see the numbers for how many graduate with worthless degrees are included. How many English majors, Sociology majors, or History majors make up the 60% mark? Then I want to know how many Engineers, Medical Majors, or others with degrees that pay are on the list.
If the overwhelming bulk of the unemployed college grads have liberal arts degrees, what is the solution? To train them in the STEM fields? If that were to happen, would the amount of jobs for people in STEM fields at currently prevailing wages magically increase to accommodate the tremendous increase in the number of people with degrees in those fields? Or would we merely end up having that same amount of unemployment, only this time amongst people who have degrees in those fields?
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Michissippi
2,797 posts, read 4,655,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
I stated that it wasn't easy, but even though it is more than likely not probable, it is still possible. The Fed Gov even states so (although they admit it will be an uphill battle). Too many people on here post that student loans cannot be discharged as an
absolute fact. Such statements are simply false and it makes me wonder if these posters actually bother to do adequate research before typing, or if they are just regurgitating some nonsense they heard without verification (or possibly they just refrain from mentioning this because it will show the fallacy of their claim.)
For all intents and purposes, student loans should be regarded as non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. Yes, it's legally possible to do it, but it's also possible to win the lottery.

If you are able to obtain a discharge a student loan, it will not be primarily because you cannot afford to pay the loans, but rather because the bankruptcy court is taking pity on you for having become severely physically or mentally disabled.

Merely walking into the bankruptcy court and explaining that your college misled you with fraudulent employment statistics and that your field is heavily glutted and that you cannot find anything above a poverty-wage job and that you are regarded as overqualified and unemployable isn't going to cut it.

That having been said, it will be interesting to see if any "activist" bankruptcy judges who have a soft spot for downtrodden educated indentured servants will adopt a very liberal interpretation of "undue hardship" and begin granting discharges to people. There must be a liberal bankruptcy judge out there somewhere who will conclude that since our nation's economy is in the toilet, student debtors are suffering from "undue hardship" and should be granted student loan discharges.

Quote:
Oh, who am I kidding. I understand that some have high hopes of the $$$ their potential degrees will bring, or that situations change, but why anyone would agree to an 8, 10, 12 +% APR with a $500 a month repayment schedule without seriously considering the consequences and risks iis beyond me.
This has been debated elsewhere in a different context. Why do "lemmings" keep enrolling in law school when they should know or are even fully aware that they have little chance of obtaining good jobs after they graduate? It's been suggested that everyone feels confident that they are smarter and better than everyone else and will be in the top 10% of the class (which, obviously, won't happen for 90% of the students).

Also, a great many college students simply have no idea what awaits them out in the real world, at least they might not have before the Great Recession started. For years they were bombarded with the message that obtaining a college education would be the key to white collar job security and middle class prosperity. So, they see it as making an investment in their future that will pay a great return on investment. After all, according to some a college degree brings in over $1 million more than a high school degree over one's lifetime, so having to pay student loans is just part of making a rational and wise investment. Even those who are aware of the current job market issues might very well view it as a long-term investment that will pay great dividends when the nation's economy recovers.

Last edited by Bhaalspawn; 02-24-2011 at 03:05 AM..
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:49 AM
 
5,507 posts, read 5,600,008 times
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Most of these threads are all the same. Maybe at some point those who "hate" college are going to explain what alternative there is that is so great.
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