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Old 11-30-2011, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Wild, Wonderful NW Phila.
7,360 posts, read 9,046,217 times
Reputation: 4514

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiScree View Post
Please point out where I misspelled anything and I'll gladly fix it you pretentious jerk.

Unless you weren't talking about my post then you're good.
I was talking about the OP. I'm 100% on board with you.

 
Old 11-30-2011, 09:20 AM
 
4,223 posts, read 4,176,199 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I've visited literally dozens of colleges, mostly ones under 10,000 students, and all but a couple emphasized that their professors teach the classes. One of the reasons my kids did not want to go to a huge college was because they did not want a class taught by a TA. When you start visiting colleges you quickly realize that two points are emphasized by most colleges 1) Full professors teaching the classes and 2) study abroad is do-able.
There is a difference between a full professor and a someone called a professor. Schools have very few full professors.

Almost all professors at any university are assitant professors by title.

There are a few associate professors and even fewer full professors.

Full Professors are usually top academics in their respective field. For example, we have 3 Full Professors in my specific subfield @ my school. None of them have ever taught an undergrad class and all are Fellows of their respective fields (a distinction less than 500 people in my subfield have ever earned).

Once a prof. receives his/her tenure they are considered associate professors. It is very difficult to become a Full Professor and next to impossible to get a bump up to Full at the same school you received your tenure at.


Here take a look at the business faculty at a small private university (Just randomly picked William & Mary).

William & Mary School of Business - Faculty Directory

Out of all of those people I see maybe 5-6 with the title Professor or Professor Emeritus, etc. Those are the only Full Professors.

Everyone else is either an assistant or an associate.

So schools that emphasize every class being taught by a Full Professor are not being honest.

Last edited by mizzourah2006; 11-30-2011 at 09:33 AM..
 
Old 11-30-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, CO
521 posts, read 667,631 times
Reputation: 1141
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
I was talking about the OP. I'm 100% on board with you.
Well, then I wholeheartedly apologize!

I just get burnt up when I hear anyone bash anybody trying to further their education. Even if I don't agree with a person's decision, I still respect that person and give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what's best for them; not me or anyone else.

Sorry again!
 
Old 11-30-2011, 09:37 AM
 
12,336 posts, read 26,193,481 times
Reputation: 6799
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
There is a difference between a full professor and a someone called a professor. Schools have very few full professors.

Almost all professors at any university are assitant professors by title.

There are a few associate professors and even fewer full professors.

Full Professors are usually top academics in their respective field. For example, we have 3 Full Professors in my specific subfield @ my school. None of them have ever taught an undergrad class and all are Fellows of their respective fields (a distinction less than 500 people in my subfield have ever earned).

Once a prof. receives his/her tenure they are considered associate professors. It is very difficult to become a Full Professor and next to impossible to get a bump up to Full at the same school you received your tenure at.

Here take a look at the business faculty at a small private university (Just randomly picked William & Mary).

William & Mary School of Business - Faculty Directory

Out of all of those people I see maybe 5-6 with the title Professor or Professor Emeritus, etc. Those are the only Full Professors.

Everyone else is either an assistant or an associate.

So schools that emphasize every class being taught by a Full Professor are not being honest.
I understand that. Here is a blurb about the Professors at my son's college - also in VA:
Faculty - Roanoke College - Salem, Virginia
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Midwest
506 posts, read 1,003,135 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
College should be about helping students learn-- not discouraging them or simply handing out grades based on which students have a higher IQ. Don't you think that those students who put in more effort to learn deserve a higher grade than those who simply slack off (but are smarter)? In the real world, smarts will only get you so far... how hard you work is the real measure of success.

One of my accounting professors at my MBA school recently said to the class "if I test you over what I taught, I won't be able to separate you out and give appropriate grades." Thus, someone who doesn't go to class can get the same grade as someone who does. That is messed up and is an example of "weeding out."
Grades should reflect mastery of the course material. Educational institutions have a responsibility to society, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I've visited literally dozens of colleges, mostly ones under 10,000 students, and all but a couple emphasized that their professors teach the classes. One of the reasons my kids did not want to go to a huge college was because they did not want a class taught by a TA. When you start visiting colleges you quickly realize that two points are emphasized by most colleges 1) Full professors teaching the classes and 2) study abroad is do-able.
TA's generally only teach lower-division courses. Why aren't they qualified to teach that level of material? Why is a professor more qualified?

Marketing has nothing to do with reality. Binging on cheap rum will not give you the lifestyle of a pirate, but that certainly doesn't stop Diageo from selling plenty of alcohol to college students.
 
Old 11-30-2011, 09:45 AM
 
511 posts, read 1,904,499 times
Reputation: 618
From the OP:

The trouble I have with a large number of my students is they just don't try that hard. Most have the ability to do well but they do the minimum and are constantly missing classes, not doing assignments, go mute when called on and rarely enjoy learning for the sake of knowledge. This is not just my opinion but the feeling of most of my colleagues.

Ideally we would have the same material, same text book and same tests as used for similar classes at the University of MD but because the students are so lazy and lack study skills we have to dumb down the class or nearly everyone would fail.

In general, while some of you who replied to my original post and are in a Community College and working hard, most of the students in the Community College I teach in were C and D students in High School and have a record of failure- not success. Montgomery College in Rockville MD is not the University of MD or Georgetown.
 
Old 11-30-2011, 09:50 AM
 
4,223 posts, read 4,176,199 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I understand that. Here is a blurb about the Professors at my son's college - also in VA:
Faculty - Roanoke College - Salem, Virginia

95% of tenure track......that means 95% of the individuals trying to obtain tenure (ie assistant professors).

You specifically said...classes all taught by Full Professors, I was stating no schools have Full Professors that teach all of their classes and very few have Full Professors that even teach undergrads.


Plus the same statement could be made for CC's. Most people that teach at CCs have the highest degrees in their field (ie PhDs).

That blurb doesn't even state how many of those profs. teach classes.

I don't know of anyone at a state school that is on a tenure-track that doesn't have the highest degree in their respective field, so it is no different than any other college or university.
 
Old 11-30-2011, 10:16 AM
 
7,136 posts, read 8,602,900 times
Reputation: 7992
Community colleges have never attracted the "best and the brightest", or really anything near that level, either; they've often been viewed as a last-ditch effort to get a disinterested, low-achieving high school student interested in higher learning, even though much of what is taught is just remedial high school..

Community colleges can be useful if their credits are allowed to be transferred to 4-year schools; otherwise, if you're an aspiring college student with above-average grades, skip the community colleges altogether, and go for the real thing...
 
Old 11-30-2011, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 24,998,851 times
Reputation: 16187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Community colleges have never attracted the "best and the brightest", or really anything near that level, either; they've often been viewed as a last-ditch effort to get a disinterested, low-achieving high school student interested in higher learning, even though much of what is taught is just remedial high school..

Community colleges can be useful if their credits are allowed to be transferred to 4-year schools; otherwise, if you're an aspiring college student with above-average grades, skip the community colleges altogether, and go for the real thing...
I have attended two local community colleges on and off for nearly 10 years now, and I've found the complete opposite to be true. The students I've let are bright, engaged and many have a real interest in learning. My classes were taught mostly by teachers that also taught at the local university and the class syllabi were nearly identical. I couldn't afford a 4 year university because I did t qualify for any student aid (my parents made too much money, but weren't willing to contribute) and my scholarships ran out pretty quickly.

I still take a class here and there for enrichment and of course there are going to be students that are apathetic or not quite intelligent enough to keep up with the rest of the class... But from my experience the students were engaged and pleasant.
 
Old 11-30-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,111 posts, read 28,248,166 times
Reputation: 20116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workaholic? View Post
I teach Management classes in the Business Program at a large Community College as an Adjunct Professor as a second job in the evening. I have also taught full time students in the day time too.

Sometimes when I can't sleep I get philosophical about the thousands of students who have come through my classes in the last 15 years. Many are nice enough and many put in some effort but in general America is in serious trouble if these people are going to someday work in responsible positions in corporate America.

What hits me is how many of the Community College students just don't care, are lazy and not so bright. Many even in their 20s and 30s are incredibly naive about academics, organization and education. They also seem incredibly naive about what awaits them in the real world if they graduate.

Most of the students who come through my Management 101 class will take a handful of classes at the Community College and then drop out and then go into a number of dead end jobs for the rest of their life.

My situation is not unique. My fellow Professors report the quality of students are at an all time low and each year the group gets worse and worse. All in an era when we are facing incredible competition from Asia.

Tell me the students are better in a four year college!
My opinion is that the current system is really messed up.

When I was 18 years old, freshly graduated from high school, I didn't have a clue on God's green earth what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I was 18 YEARS OLD. My big priority was chasing members of the opposite sex, partying and having fun.

Having expectations that children are capable of determining a life path, is absurd. Of course, they aren't serious, they don't have a clue.

I believe that EVERY PERSON should have 4 years of mandatory military service immediately after high school. This would give them a taste of the real world, give them a sense of responsibility and force them to grow up a little bit. Then, they can decide what they heck they want to do with their life, and pursue it.

20yrsinBranson
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