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Old 11-30-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Alabama
1,069 posts, read 819,361 times
Reputation: 893

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And to think I was about to go to a community college you are just a terrible teacher!
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:19 PM
 
20,723 posts, read 16,234,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
Many states now REQUIRE transference between state schools (CC and 4 year)

Can't speak to pvt...
Yes. My state of NJ has that rule as well, but only if they attain acceptance by merit. Someone with a 2.0 GPA at CC isn't going to be accepted into Rutgers, for example.

The problem with state schools is that they are expensive compared to a lot of private school options. Private schools offer more grants.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:22 PM
 
20,723 posts, read 16,234,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
^^I think this is the problem with how some "top 10" colleges think.

I thought college was supposed to be about teaching students-- not setting them up for failure.
They do. At least the top 10 do.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:32 PM
 
20,723 posts, read 16,234,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
This isn't necessarily true. It depends on the state and the school. For example, University of Missouri does not offer scholarships outside of a 1k/semester for a 30+ on your ACT.

The only scholarships they offered were athletic.
Clearly University of Missouri is not a good choice for someone looking for scholarships. What about financial aid grants?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post

Not all private schools provide full funding either, most is need based. For example, if your parents made 250k you would be paying to go to Harvard even if you were valedictorian and had a 1560/1600 on your SAT. I know people with similar resumes that paid to go to schools like Wash U and Vanderbilt.

Academic full rides are for graduate degrees, not usually for undergrad.
Yes, need-based funding is huge at good private schools. There's no way you can consider a family with an income of $250k in need of funding, however knock that down to a more reasonable income of $80k, you can get 90% of your college funded for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post

I know many, many brilliant people who paid for their education. Now those people could have gotten academic scholarships to tiny private universities where the tuition may have been free (still would have cost 10-15k in room & board), but to go to a quality private university they were not receiving much aside from the 10-15k off the 35k price tag everyone receives.
Sure you are. Unless you have a high income ($200k+), you're getting a significant amount of your tuition, boarding, and expenses paid for you. I already gave an example where my (private) school would have cost you $4,800 per year for ALL EXPENSES. On paper, my school costs $50,000.... but in reality, most students get close to a full ride.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:40 PM
 
2,085 posts, read 1,508,993 times
Reputation: 2745
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post

I believe that EVERY PERSON should have 4 years of mandatory military service immediately after high school.
20yrsinBranson
Good thinking. But . . . Any idea how the Treasury would pay for this? Or should they just be taken as uncompensated slaves, based on their age? How about a second four-year round of compulsory military service for everyone, beginning at age 50, to hold-down civilian unemployment? Maybe we should have a third round beginning at age 65 where we draft enough American retirees to invade and occupy China or India. Would soak up the excess elderly population now weighing so heavily on SS and Medicare.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:48 PM
 
20,797 posts, read 32,284,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
^^I think this is the problem with how some "top 10" colleges think.

I thought college was supposed to be about teaching students-- not setting them up for failure.
No, colleges are to prepare students for their future careers. If you can't hack an Organic Chem class your sophomore year in college, how are you going to deal with medical school or research if you go that route. You can't operate on the "everyone gets the same" principal in college, either you can do the work or you can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone8570 View Post
Will most go to med school?
From my understanding, a lot of chemistry majors do other things than med school.

An example of how professors at my engineering school "weeded out" students was to test students over material that wasn't covered. How is this fair to the students who were admitted? If they were admitted to the college, shouldn't they have already been "weeded out."

College should be about helping students learn-- not discouraging them or simply handing out grades based on which students have a higher IQ. Don't you think that those students who put in more effort to learn deserve a higher grade than those who simply slack off (but are smarter)? In the real world, smarts will only get you so far... how hard you work is the real measure of success.

One of my accounting professors at my MBA school recently said to the class "if I test you over what I taught, I won't be able to separate you out and give appropriate grades." Thus, someone who doesn't go to class can get the same grade as someone who does. That is messed up and is an example of "weeding out."
No, just getting into college doesn't weed you out for every single profession. You still have to have a mastery of a subject to perform the job. I couldn't pass most upper level math classes, for example, even though I was admitting to college because I am just not a math person. Does that mean I should still be able to be an engineer just because I want to be--heck no. There is also a huge intellectual leap from being able to "do the work" and "applying what you know". A test in college should not be a regurgitation from a text book. It should test you on how you APPLY that knowledge to a situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
95% of tenure track......that means 95% of the individuals trying to obtain tenure (ie assistant professors).

You specifically said...classes all taught by Full Professors, I was stating no schools have Full Professors that teach all of their classes and very few have Full Professors that even teach undergrads.


Plus the same statement could be made for CC's. Most people that teach at CCs have the highest degrees in their field (ie PhDs).

That blurb doesn't even state how many of those profs. teach classes.

I don't know of anyone at a state school that is on a tenure-track that doesn't have the highest degree in their respective field, so it is no different than any other college or university.
Full professors=PhD. Most people that teach at the CC's here have a masters degree at best. At the private schools our kids are looking at, ALL of the professors have a PhD and teach classes. You don't see any grad students teaching at all. That is a full professor.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:51 PM
 
25,120 posts, read 26,927,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workaholic? View Post
I teach Management classes in the Business Program at a large Community College as an Adjunct Professor as a second job in the evening. I have also taught full time students in the day time too.

Sometimes when I can't sleep I get philosophical about the thousands of students who have come through my classes in the last 15 years. Many are nice enough and many put in some effort but in general America is in serious trouble if these people are going to someday work in responsible positions in corporate America.

What hits me is how many of the Community College students just don't care, are lazy and not so bright. Many even in their 20s and 30s are incredibly naive about academics, organization and education. They also seem incredibly naive about what awaits them in the real world if they graduate.

Most of the students who come through my Management 101 class will take a handful of classes at the Community College and then drop out and then go into a number of dead end jobs for the rest of their life.

My situation is not unique. My fellow Professors report the quality of students are at an all time low and each year the group gets worse and worse. All in an era when we are facing incredible competition from Asia.

Tell me the students are better in a four year college!
Well, if you are teaching in a community college, perhaps you should learn how to spell the word 'damn.'
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:53 PM
 
20,797 posts, read 32,284,126 times
Reputation: 9887
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
This isn't necessarily true. It depends on the state and the school. For example, University of Missouri does not offer scholarships outside of a 1k/semester for a 30+ on your ACT.

The only scholarships they offered were athletic.

Not all private schools provide full funding either, most is need based. For example, if your parents made 250k you would be paying to go to Harvard even if you were valedictorian and had a 1560/1600 on your SAT. I know people with similar resumes that paid to go to schools like Wash U and Vanderbilt.

Academic full rides are for graduate degrees, not usually for undergrad.

I know many, many brilliant people who paid for their education. Now those people could have gotten academic scholarships to tiny private universities where the tuition may have been free (still would have cost 10-15k in room & board), but to go to a quality private university they were not receiving much aside from the 10-15k off the 35k price tag everyone receives.



What University do you go to where Full Professors teach undergrads? Perhaps you are referring to assistant and associate professors.

If you are referring to small private universities where little research is going on being taught by a full professor is like being taught by a good teacher. They most likely have contributed very little to the field. The full professors at research universities (this includes schools like Harvard, Michigan, etc.) are the ones that are making the contributions and they are almost definitely not teaching undergad classes (considering there are only 1-2 full professors in every department/sub-department).
Look up the financial aid offerings at Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, etc. Just look at their websites. It is all spelled out there how these schools cost LESS for most people then even MizzU....Then look at less prestigious private schools around the nation, look at their websites, see the LARGE merit aid they have to offer. For better students, it is rare that a state U is less then a private school. It cost me $1000/year to attend my private school, it would have been $5500 to attend a state school...My husband paid NOTHING for his last 2 years at our private school, no room, board, tuition, books, NOTHING because of his grades. It happens ALL the time...at private schools. especially private schools in states that have top schools (K-12).
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:13 PM
 
2,721 posts, read 2,192,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
Look up the financial aid offerings at Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, etc. Just look at their websites. It is all spelled out there how these schools cost LESS for most people then even MizzU....Then look at less prestigious private schools around the nation, look at their websites, see the LARGE merit aid they have to offer. For better students, it is rare that a state U is less then a private school. It cost me $1000/year to attend my private school, it would have been $5500 to attend a state school...My husband paid NOTHING for his last 2 years at our private school, no room, board, tuition, books, NOTHING because of his grades. It happens ALL the time...at private schools. especially private schools in states that have top schools (K-12).
Aren't most of them need based aid?

Anyway, I was curious about this so I looked at harvard's financial aid calculator and this is what I came up with (this is for student from Texas):
Household Income > $250,000/yr = Tuition is $49,000/yr
Household Income > $200,000/yr = Tuition is $30,000/yr
Household Income > $150,000/yr = Tuition is $16,000/yr
Household Income > $100,000/yr = Tuition is $10,000/yr
Household Income > $50,000/yr = Tuition is $4,000/yr
Household Income < $50,000/yr = Tuition is $4,000/yr
^^ This is with all grants and scholarships lumped in.

Now compare that to a good state school where you will pay $5,000 - $10,000 per year no matter what your income level (with no grants/scholarships)... with grants and scholarships you could end up paying nothing or even making money to go there.

I think we can see that the private school will be just as expensive for some, but more expensive for a lot of others...
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:15 PM
 
1,607 posts, read 1,232,653 times
Reputation: 1110
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
Full professors=PhD. Most people that teach at the CC's here have a masters degree at best. At the private schools our kids are looking at, ALL of the professors have a PhD and teach classes. You don't see any grad students teaching at all. That is a full professor.
So you are choosing to make your own definition. A PhD does not equal a full professor.

a PhD = a PhD.

I know plenty of people with PhDs at universities that are instructors. They are not on a tenure-track and are thus not considered professors, but they have yearly contracts and teach 4-5 classes a semester.

Also you realize the difference between a grad student who has completed all course work and a PhD is a research dissertation and experience. A freshly minted PhD does not know anymore than someone who is getting ready to propose their dissertation (they can be separated by as little as 6 months in experience). It is a research process that separates the two.
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