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Okay. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are unique situations where people have children or other obligations that make community schools more accessible than others.
However, in most case, this is true. The numbers have been thrown around here. Grants, Scholarships and Financial Aid are all better at 4-year colleges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest
Why would you go to a school that doesn't have good financial aid and scholarship options? These students have so many options for school, as long as they don't have responsibilities that tie them to being near home (such as family responsibilities).
Financial Aid for CC only covers tuition, and possibly books. While Financial Aid at a 4-year school covers room & boarding as well. In most cases, one would be able to get scholarships, (need and non need) grants to cover a good chunk of those expenses.
I don't see financials being a reason to go to CC for these students.
The language you use is extremely misleading. Is that by accident or design?
Just FYI, the phrase "4-year colleges" implies that you are talking about the 2000+ 4-year degree-granting institutions in the USA.
According to Census figures, about 7.5 million students were enrolled in 2-year colleges in 2009. Many of those aren't degree-seeking, but no matter how you slice it we're talking about a big number. There are not enough grants and scholarships to fund millions of students. Your advice is great on an individual level - if I were a student and you were counseling me personally to attend a four-year school on scholarship, you'd be right. But not everyone can do that. Most available grants are being used, so this is a zero-sum game. If one student currently at CC went to Princeton on a grant, that would leave one current Princeton student without a slot.
I've never heard of a CC offering living expenses. The point of the CC, in fact the first "C" is "community", meaning most people already live in the area and that's why they go there. No housing costs. CC's aren't residential so there is no need.
But I agree that you go where they have the program you want to persue. Sometimes that makes it necessary to move somewhere else and not stay local.
The college doesn't offer these expenses; the feds do through the student loan programs. Many kids in my area go to CC and rent an apt. with other kids, at least after a semester or two.
Why would you go to a school that doesn't have good fin. aid and scholarship options? Perhaps the school has a major you really want to pursue.
Fair enough. Although I'd imagine that is a rare situation. Majority of programs are available at many universities. However, if you want a particular university that will cost more out of pocket, that's your choice. In that case, funding is not highest priority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Could you provide some documentation that you can't get student loans to go to a CC that includes living expenses?
Actually, the burden of proof of existence must be met before before I attempt to prove that it doesn't exist. So go for it.
The language you use is extremely misleading. Is that by accident or design?
Just FYI, the phrase "4-year colleges" implies that you are talking about the 2000+ 4-year degree-granting institutions in the USA.
According to Census figures, about 7.5 million students were enrolled in 2-year colleges in 2009. Many of those aren't degree-seeking, but no matter how you slice it we're talking about a big number. There are not enough grants and scholarships to fund millions of students. Your advice is great on an individual level - if I were a student and you were counseling me personally to attend a four-year school on scholarship, you'd be right. But not everyone can do that. Most available grants are being used, so this is a zero-sum game. If one student currently at CC went to Princeton on a grant, that would leave one current Princeton student without a slot.
We're not talking about all the students. We're only talking about the "smart ones". Not everyone falls under that category. According to the OP, most don't.
Fair enough. Although I'd imagine that is a rare situation. Majority of programs are available at many universities. However, if you want a particular university that will cost more out of pocket, that's your choice. In that case, funding is not highest priority.
Actually, the burden of proof of existence must be met before before I attempt to prove that it doesn't exist. So go for it.
You made the claim that you can't get student loans to cover housing at a CC. The burden is on you, pal!
You made the claim that you can't get student loans to cover housing at a CC. The burden is on you, pal!
Ok. All I could find is that if the school allows for housing as an option of attendance, then it can be covered by *loans*.
However, I don't see that having a huge impact on my point. Loan for school vs grants & scholarships for school... which applies to majority of the students in question. Some rare instances where they choose to go to a school that offers a unique major is an exception.
They do give an allotment for housing, with a caveat that the loans are not meant to maintain a specific standard of living. The $8000 would cover an apt. with a roomate situation here in metro Denver.
It's important to keep in mind that not all students, even good students, will qualify for grants and scholarships. My older daughter had excellent grades and test scores, was in the top 10% of her HS class, and received only a small scholarship from a private liberal arts college, b/c it was a school in high demand and they didn't have to hand out a lot of money to attract students.
It's important to keep in mind that not all students, even good students, will qualify for grants and scholarships. My older daughter had excellent grades and test scores, was in the top 10% of her HS class, and received only a small scholarship from a private liberal arts college, b/c it was a school in high demand and they didn't have to hand out a lot of money to attract students.
Interesting point that your bring up. How much does cost of tuition play in choosing a school? For me, personally, it was pretty high. I would say that it was 2nd or 3rd reason on my list as to why I chose my school (first being that I wanted to stay near home as my mom was ill). In your daughter's case, it appears that she was less interested in cost and more interested in what the school had to offer.
But you can't really compare the entire student body of a CC to The student body of a 4-year school, as not all students at a CC are there for the same reason, a more accurate comparison would be to compare CC students who are planning to continue their education, or enter one of the harder programs.
another problem is that your statistics only pertain to CC students who are straight from high school, when in fact a number of CC students are older, 46% percent of CC students are over the age of 25, and since CC do not require SAT or ACT scores and do not track that information you have no scientific proof that there is a lesser quality of student overall. And even the remaining 54% are not all students straight out of HS. It is a very small subset of data, based off of IL seniors who became freshman at CC.
It's too small of a data point to make the generalization that CC students are not as smart as 4-year college students.
It's enough of a data point to say that 18 year olds entering CC are lesser students than those attending a university.
Freshman who took the ACT you would assume have the goal of a four year degree. That data shows lower test scores and GPA when comparing.
I don't see you side of the debate getting much better for people over 25 who didn't pursue a degree right out of HS. Those 46% are the ones likely looking for an associates degree or in a technical program.
It's enough of a data point to say that 18 year olds entering CC are lesser students than those attending a university.
Freshman who took the ACT you would assume have the goal of a four year degree. That data shows lower test scores and GPA when comparing.
I don't see you side of the debate getting much better for people over 25 who didn't pursue a degree right out of HS. Those 46% are the ones likely looking for an associates degree or in a technical program.
Did you comletely miss this post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
No, I do not think people in vocational programs are necessarily "not very good academically". In Illiniois, as here in CO, all high school students take the ACT. Try again.
Springfield – Although ACT is designed for students who plan to attend college, Illinois requires all 11th graders, unless they’re exempt, to take the ACT as part of the required state testing under the federal No Child Left Behind law. Illinois’ composite average of 20.7 is the highest among the eight states in which 90 percent or more graduates tested. Other states with 90 percent or more of their graduates taking the ACT include Colorado, Louisiana, Tennessee, Wyoming, Michigan, Kentucky and Mississippi.
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