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Old 03-14-2012, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,982 posts, read 40,961,186 times
Reputation: 44901

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For medical school:

Background?

"Student debt statistics
  • $157,944 – Average educational debt of indebted graduates of the class of 2010.
  • 78 percent of graduates have debt of at least $100,000.
  • 42 precent of graduates have debt of at least $150,000.
  • 85 percent of graduating medical students carry outstanding loans"
Other factors are the interest rate and how long the student takes to pay it back.

A first year resident in Family Medicine at the Medical College of Georgia makes $44,321 this year. At current interest rates, a grad who borrows $100,000 and starts repayment when he starts working will be expected to pay over $700 per month on the loan, if he has a good credit rating and qualifies for the lowest rate. That's about 16% of pre-tax income and does not leave a lot of room for much after the essentials are paid for, though there are about $2500 in addtional perks and free health care through the school. The residency is three years with not much increase in pay during that time. There are plans to delay repayment, but the interest continues to accrue. There are incentive programs, but a single late payment can lose those.

The potential earning power is there, but it is difficult to go through all that schooling and be paid less than a nurse while you are a resident.

It would be difficult to owe $300,000 unless you defaulted and started to accrue penalties and attorney fees. Then I can see it escalating rapidly.

If you default, you get in big trouble very quickly with no way out.

Default: The Student Loan Documentary

This is a short documentary on student debt that is being shown in the upcoming weeks in several venues, including satellite TV and public broadcasting stations.

No one should borrow more than he can expect to repay without winning the lottery.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:22 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,885 posts, read 32,184,034 times
Reputation: 67794
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiana View Post
maybe you could post some links, or some other corroborating evidence. A lot of those articles you read lump in all debt: Student loans, credit card debt, car loans, etc to make it sound worse.
lol!!!
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:16 AM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,424,023 times
Reputation: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
AAMC study from 2010 says mean debt for 4th year med students is $130k with a standard deviation of $79k. What I find interesting is that 1st year students have a mean debt of $146k, 2nd years $141k, 3rd years $132k.

So, your $300k in debt medical student is going to be in the z=2.152 range, or less than 3.5% of all medical students assuming normal distribution (though the median debt is $150k, so we actually have a negative skewed distribution and your $300k case is even more in the extreme than the 96.85 percentile.

I love it. Math is your friend! (Ok, I am a nerd ).

Are there med students with $300k of debt? Yes. Are those students anywhere close to the norm? No. I would even go so far as asserting that when the number is that low, that we are almost certainly looking at cases where med school is not the only expenditure factoring into their debt load.


The reason I take issue with your statements is that many people read these forums seeking advice. I do not want people seeing your extreme cases and assuming that it is the norm to take on enormous debt to pay for school. It is quite possible, and common, to attend higher education without tremendous debt loads because of the way financial aid is structured, and anyone reading here looking for answers about post-secondary debt needs to realize that your examples and statements are extremes.
Very well said.
Mine in red.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:51 AM
 
961 posts, read 2,018,251 times
Reputation: 481
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Those of you forcing your children to study subjects because they are "hot" right now? I feel sorry for you. More so for your child.

There is nothing more expensive than the futile attempt to fit a square peg into a round hole.

My son will begin studies by following his bliss - a BFA in Art. I am excited to see where this passion leads him.How exciting to have a child with a passion other than money, especially in this day and age!
I agree.

The correct attitude is identifying what you can do to add value to society through you interests.

The adding value part is what can give one the creativity to make use of a "useless" liberal arts degree like Womens Studies or History. It still needs planning, intent, and all of that, but I see too many people becoming accountants or "doing finance" because "that's what pays". If Algorithims and computer programming languages get you hot, then fine. Otherwise why become a zombie office drone?

Identify what you like and are passionate about. Get good at it. find a way to add value through doing that.
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:56 PM
 
3,244 posts, read 7,424,023 times
Reputation: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by superseiyan View Post
I agree.

The correct attitude is identifying what you can do to add value to society through you interests.

Being able to splatter pigments on a canvas adds as much to our GNP as picking empty soda cans for the $0.05 refund.

The adding value part is what can give one the creativity to make use of a "useless" liberal arts degree like Womens Studies or History. It still needs planning, intent, and all of that, but I see too many people becoming accountants or "doing finance" because "that's what pays". If Algorithims and computer programming languages get you hot, then fine. Otherwise why become a zombie office drone?

You don't need to be a zombie office drone in a financially rewarding field. I sit out overlooking a beautiful lake, and can work from home, when I choose. I get to travel all over the world, interface with amazing experts in numerous fields, and love it. (And at the same time produce things that make this country more financially stable). I may not know the 'Barber of Seville' beyond what I was taught watching Bug Bunny cartoons, but I can build equipment that saves thousands of lives, and makes US companies strong. Please give your examples, in this capitalistic society, that contributes.

Identify what you like and are passionate about. Get good at it. find a way to add value through doing that.

I absolutely agree. Just make sure you can make a living at it, too, unless you have financial resources to cover yourself. "I'll take fries with that".
Mine in red.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:37 PM
 
158 posts, read 238,472 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Mine in red.
you know super sparkle all I will say is this, is your are happy with what you do then that is great, but not everyone wants to be an engineer or a nurse. While I wish that I had the desire to study those things, it is just not for me. This does not make the people who do not study those things are bad people or "useless". Everyone contributes to society in their own way whether it be through art or teaching ,but theres no point in constantly putting people down and beating your chest about it.

mine in blue
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:08 PM
 
5,951 posts, read 13,047,177 times
Reputation: 4813
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Mine in red.
Give it a rest! You sound like a broken record! You are just as bad as the Ivory Tower that thinks they are too good for the average person.

We know, we know, you contribute a lot to society. If it makes you feel great then awesome. Your repeating posts sounds almost narcissistic.

But most engineers don't have to keep repeating and repeating it. And they are still respectful of what others have chosen to do. Why don't you just take pride in what you do, and leave it at that! Your borderline narcissistic here.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:15 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,740,409 times
Reputation: 2981
I graduated from the University of Iowa.

The single most valuable individual donation ever (estimated at $140M) to the school came from an artist and an art gallery owner (the artist left the gift to the gallery owner and requested it be donated to the school).
Artists most certainly can be very economically productive.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:22 PM
 
158 posts, read 238,472 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Give it a rest! You sound like a broken record! You are just as bad as the Ivory Tower that thinks they are too good for the average person.

We know, we know, you contribute a lot to society. If it makes you feel great then awesome. Your repeating posts sounds almost narcissistic.

But most engineers don't have to keep repeating and repeating it. And they are still respectful of what others have chosen to do. Why don't you just take pride in what you do, and leave it at that! Your borderline narcissistic here.
borderline narcissistic? i thought she/he was borderline like 20 post ago! (exaggerating btw)
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:39 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,885 posts, read 32,184,034 times
Reputation: 67794
Quote:
Originally Posted by superseiyan View Post
I agree.

The correct attitude is identifying what you can do to add value to society through you interests.

The adding value part is what can give one the creativity to make use of a "useless" liberal arts degree like Womens Studies or History. It still needs planning, intent, and all of that, but I see too many people becoming accountants or "doing finance" because "that's what pays". If Algorithims and computer programming languages get you hot, then fine. Otherwise why become a zombie office drone?

Identify what you like and are passionate about. Get good at it. find a way to add value through doing that.
What wisdom! I have two "useless degrees" and my husband three.

I have found that my Woman's Sudies minor has opened many doors!
Art also adds to society. And so few people are talented in that way.
My son is thinking about a double major in Urban Planning, a minors in several fields, and a certificate or MA in Art Therapy. I don't think an MFA in Art (the terminal degree in Studio Art) is a bad choice for him either.
Teaching college is on his radar and what he does is unusual.

We like and do well with useless degrees in our family. There are a couple who refuse to teach or do anything but "their field" - they do not do as well.

I did study something VERY USEFUL once. I studied and became a nurse.
What a waste of three years! I didn't hate it and I have a huge respect for nurses. I found a niche in Psych Nursing, and thought of teaching at the college level.

Ultimately, I should have followed my bliss, but I succumbed to pressure from others. I don't really regret it. I learned a lot, and it's another thing to add to my CV. I don't regret anything. I also learned what NOT to do with my kids.
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