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Old 09-22-2012, 02:59 PM
Status: "Happy Halloween!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,240 posts, read 58,470,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
You can thank EEO laws for most of this.

If employers had the ability to give tests for a position, without the fear of liability due to disparate impact, they would be more willing to forgo blanket requirements for a position, like having a degree. But a degree at least ensures that a candidate has the minimum ability to train for a position. A degree now days is more about showing ability to train, not being trained in a specific skill.
Oh, for G*d's sake! Would you like a nurse taking care of you who really didn't have a nursing degree? How about a doctor? No test in the world can cover everything.
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:53 PM
 
143 posts, read 152,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, for G*d's sake! Would you like a nurse taking care of you who really didn't have a nursing degree? How about a doctor? No test in the world can cover everything.
And neither can a degree....It's why we have this thing called 'on the job training'
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Old 09-22-2012, 04:59 PM
Status: "Happy Halloween!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,240 posts, read 58,470,182 times
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Originally Posted by TEnterprises View Post
And neither can a degree....It's why we have this thing called 'on the job training'
Maybe you'd like your neurosurgeon to get his/her experience via OJT. I'm not talking about a supervised residency with minimal pay, either.
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:07 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 12,040,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
The problem is, professions have evolved so much in the past 10 years that programs like engineering at many schools can't stay on top. The way these jobs are done today are often completely different than what the folks in the programs are being taught. They are coming out with skills that reflect the way the jobs were performed a decade ago. Hence, these students are often not competitive in today's job market. Worse, employers have cut out the expense of bringing them up to speed because there are enough experienced workers available to choose from. Same reason that when people fall out of their profession for 5 or so years, they are often left eating dust as their profession evolves without them.

If I were a student, I would demand a professor who isn't a career academic, but someone who teaches AND works in the profession they are trying to teach. The private sector is very competitive, and it is evolving at the speed of light compared to just 30 years ago. Often, the information is the same, but the way it is utilize and is applied is constantly changing.
In my industry the private sector collaborates a great deal with universities. Academia is at the heart of most research and grad students typically engage in novel research. Undergrad work is a different story. I always looked at it as obtaining the fundamental basics for a given field rather than vo-tech training.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
2,785 posts, read 4,578,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maybe you'd like your neurosurgeon to get his/her experience via OJT. I'm not talking about a supervised residency with minimal pay, either.
Katiana,

I think you've missed the entire point. Of course jobs that actually require and utilize specialized knowledge legitimately need college-educated people--doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers, etc. The point was that a great many jobs that don't require that still require possession of a bachelors degree in order to qualify for employment.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:36 PM
Status: "Happy Halloween!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,240 posts, read 58,470,182 times
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^^^Maybe having a college education shows that you can actually get a college degree, something that might bode well in the job performance.
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Michissippi
2,785 posts, read 4,578,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^^Maybe having a college education shows that you can actually get a college degree, something that might bode well in the job performance.
I suspect that most of the people reading this thread understand that. The issue is that it is costing our nation a tremendous amount of money and resulting in a large oversupply of college graduates and people who are burdened by student loans but without a return-on-investment. In other words, college graduate overproduction is damaging our nation's economic well-being.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:48 AM
 
20,336 posts, read 15,575,495 times
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I agree that too many people are attaining college degrees. A college degree is a great, valuable asset, but not everyone should have one.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:19 AM
Status: "Happy Halloween!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
69,240 posts, read 58,470,182 times
Reputation: 19746
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
I agree that too many people are attaining college degrees. A college degree is a great, valuable asset, but not everyone should have one.
That's right! There ought to be quotas on how many people can go to college, like in some European countries. Who wants to volunteer their own kids out of college? (Sarcasm. . . ON)
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:53 AM
 
4,424 posts, read 3,489,352 times
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Quote:
I suspect that most of the people reading this thread understand that. The issue is that it is costing our nation a tremendous amount of money and resulting in a large oversupply of college graduates and people who are burdened by student loans but without a return-on-investment. In other words, college graduate overproduction is damaging our nation's economic well-being.

I don't suspect we are going to agree on this one. I think the fundamental issue is not the college degree. During the Great Depression there was actually a hotel or two that required elevator operators to have a college degree as a prerequisite to be being hired. Their reason for doing so had nothing to do with it being an actual qualification. The hotel didn't want to have to sort through hundreds of applications for this one position because the job market was so tight.

That's a lot of what is going on today. Some employers ask for a bachelor's degree from job applicants simply because they can ask for it. It helps them weed their way through stacks of applications.

I tend to disagree that there is a problem "over-educating" people. Often graduates are unable to make immediate use of a degree. However, it doesn't mean the degree doesn't have long term value. It may take years before a degree holder can put their training completely to use. It took my father at least five years out of law school (and this was in the 1950's) to make anything that would at the time have been considered a decent living as an attorney. Yet, he ended his legal career after a total of 22 years service as a judge in the state and federal courts.

A college degree represents "potential". Not everyone will realize potential. Yet, without it, people are limited indeed.
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