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I loved the international flavor of my university. In fact, the high international enrollment was a selling point for me!
I think it's more noticeable because many of the international students look, well, international - Asians, Africans, etc. As a staff member, I've been in uncomfortable situations where donors assume an Asian or black with strong African features student is international - and it turns out they're from the Bronx.
My only real issue is when we admit students who have great school English but have never had to use it outside of a classroom. Our students from Latin America, Europe, southern Asia, Japan, Korea, and Africa have no problems, but we have a huge influx of Chinese students who do great on their SATs but don't actually have the comprehension level to function academically or socially. I was a mentor staff member recently to a Vietnamese student and I was amazed at how fluent his English was, even if he was self-conscious about it. He quickly made Vietnamese and American friends alike, but often lamented about how some of his Chinese friends had few non-international friends because of the language barrier.
It's not much different at large state universities either.
It's HUGE incentive to get foreign students as they pay the highest tuition rates at a school.
If a college applicant has good SAT/ACT scores and grades he or she is going to get into a good school. All this "This person is taking a spot" is bull. If you've get a good GPA and good SAT/ACT scores you are going to get into a good school.
Actually, it's not "bull". They don't have unlimited space. They can only admit so many students. More students means there's more demand. More demand = more selective.
They need to finally fix the whole system. Education must be THE top priority. It can't be that some Colleges spent 30% of the tuition on their athletics department and other useless crap. If they didn't do this, they wouldn't have to rip people off.
From what I gather, it is rather difficult for foreign students to go from a foreign high school to an American undergraduate college/university. The jump is typically from a foreign college to an American masters program.
If these students are going there form undergrad I would guess that most either went to a highly regulated hs in their own country or most likely went to high school in the USA at a private boarding school. So they had the same level playing field as your son and those who applied and most likely blew them away academically. To them college is not about socializing, it is about getting the best job possible upon graduation, sorry your sons social life is hurt from it.
These students took the SAT's but to supplement the verbal part (as it is not their first language) they took the TOEFL. I am all for foreigners at American colleges, the more the better. It just shows what a mockery our education system is.
And yes, these foreign students pay their way in cash because their parents value education. Here on CD we have debated on whether peoples children "deserve" their college paid, and those who do are spoiled rich kids. I highly doubt such a gift from ones parents is demonized in India, China, or Korea like it is here.
All of this would be very interesting, I'm sure, were it not for the fact that this kid's school - and about 100% of other liberal arts colleges (both private and public) - are "non-profit," meaning they pay no taxes and, thus, reap a huge subsidy from taxpayers like you, me, and the poster here. Further, most give little or nothing back to the taxpaying community as part of the "deal."
If it's an "elite" liberal arts college (bugs me, BTW, that most posters like this prefer to keep the school name anonymous, to protect precisely what?), it's also most likely receiving Federal research money and, thus, a further subsidy. So, I can certainly empathize with kids like the one discussed here. We need to support American students getting into American colleges, subsidized by American tax dollars, not "demonizing" THEM, which is precisely what your post appears to be doing.
All of this would be very interesting, I'm sure, were it not for the fact that this kid's school - and about 100% of other liberal arts colleges (both private and public) - are "non-profit," meaning they pay no taxes and, thus, reap a huge subsidy from taxpayers like you, me, and the poster here. Further, most give little or nothing back to the taxpaying community as part of the "deal."
If it's an "elite" liberal arts college (bugs me, BTW, that most posters like this prefer to keep the school name anonymous, to protect precisely what?), it's also most likely receiving Federal research money and, thus, a further subsidy. So, I can certainly empathize with kids like the one discussed here. We need to support American students getting into American colleges, subsidized by American tax dollars, not "demonizing" THEM, which is precisely what your post appears to be doing.
Colleges already give back to the economy. They train each new generation of workers for practically every industry, countless companies have been started off of research developed in college labs, not to mention all the innovations in health, education, technology etc that make everyone's lives better.
Also, there is no epidemic of foreign students pushing out domestic students. American students still have many, many options for college.
Colleges already give back to the economy. They train each new generation of workers for practically every industry, countless companies have been started off of research developed in college labs, not to mention all the innovations in health, education, technology etc that make everyone's lives better.
Also, there is no epidemic of foreign students pushing out domestic students. American students still have many, many options for college.
They certainly don't give back enough, in my view. And certainly not for the usurious increases in costs we've seen beginning in the Reagan years. And, I beg to differ, there is an epidemic of foreign students (and workers) taking precisely those jobs for which you suggest colleges do such a great job training people. H1-B visas, for example, are an absolute travesty in an era of unprecedented white collar unemployment.
They certainly don't give back enough, in my view. And certainly not for the usurious increases in costs we've seen beginning in the Reagan years. And, I beg to differ, there is an epidemic of foreign students (and workers) taking precisely those jobs for which you suggest colleges do such a great job training people. H1-B visas, for example, are an absolute travesty in an era of unprecedented white collar unemployment.
1. There are a lot of reasons for tuition increases, not the least of which are the amenities demanded by today's typical American middle class college student (top of the line gyms, larger dorms and more of them, state of the art classrooms with plenty of new technology, etc). Colleges who want to attract enough highly capable paying students to stay afloat have to keep up with these demands to stay competitive.
2. I said colleges supply workers for practically every industry, not just ones that hire people that require Visas. There are only a handful of industries where that is popular and for most of those it happens because there are not enough Americans interested and/or qualified. That is not the fault of colleges, that's on our culture, the state of the sciences where capable students have to work for many years with little pay and no hope of a large return, and a lack of Interest in foreign language fluency. Keeping on foreign workers is actually expensive and most companies wouldn't do it if they had the choice.
1. There are a lot of reasons for tuition increases, not the least of which are the amenities demanded by today's typical American middle class college student (top of the line gyms, larger dorms and more of them, state of the art classrooms with plenty of new technology, etc). Colleges who want to attract enough highly capable paying students to stay afloat have to keep up with these demands to stay competitive.
2. I said colleges supply workers for practically every industry, not just ones that hire people that require Visas. There are only a handful of industries where that is popular and for most of those it happens because there are not enough Americans interested and/or qualified. That is not the fault of colleges, that's on our culture, the state of the sciences where capable students have to work for many years with little pay and no hope of a large return, and a lack of Interest in foreign language fluency. Keeping on foreign workers is actually expensive and most companies wouldn't do it if they had the choice.
Tina... Clearly you have your opinion; I have mine. But now I'm very clear with whom I've had this discussion. Best of luck with your P.O.V. in our brave new world.
My son returned to his small liberal arts college this fall and was shocked when he looked around campus. It seemed like over half of the Freshman class was now international students. The leaders of the college are quite proud of this and say they are going to promote the college to international students and increase the diversity of the student body.
My son says while it can be interesting to have SOME students from overseas he wonders where to draw the line. What is a logical percentage of students to have from overseas? 40%, 50%, 70%?
The problem with the foreign students is they have balkanized the student body. Most of the international students are from either Korea, India or China and each group of these students just divide up into their own groups and have nothing to do with people from the other countries. He reports that the American students try hard to be inclusive and welcome and befriend the foreign students but rarely do they react in kind. And the Korean, Chinese or Indian students are openly hostile to each other and only socialize with students from their own country.
The second problem with all the foreign students is that with each person the college lets in from lets say China, an American born student who works hard, gets a great ACT/SAT score and dreams about going to that college all his life is shut out.
I agree, American colleges should let in foreign students for a variety of reasons but how much is to much? Lets debate!
Diversity is good when it happens naturally. When a quota (if I'm understanding the bolded section correctly) is applied then it is unfair. Someone should not be let into school just because they are from a certain country. As far as the hostility goes maybe some sort of mixer might be good.
Adding all those foreign students so quickly has changed the social and academic dynamic and has further cut the campus into competiting groups of students who do not really have anything to do with each other. Before the dividing line was nerds and jocks, now the situation is even more severe with rival groups of Indians, Koreans and Chinese who don't like and trust each other. The mood on the campus is off now and lots of students are thinking of transfering. It happened to fast and too soon.
I think it's silly to say that if an increase in international students creates tension, the solution is to limit internationals. To cite your other example, tension between nerds and jocks, would the solution be to limit incoming science majors so the jocks don't feel uncomfortable?
The educational landscape is changing, and that will involve some growing pains. But pointing the finger at international students for segregation and tension on campus doesn't deal with the root of the problem.
I think it's silly to say that if an increase in international students creates tension, the solution is to limit internationals. To cite your other example, tension between nerds and jocks, would the solution be to limit incoming science majors so the jocks don't feel uncomfortable?
The educational landscape is changing, and that will involve some growing pains. But pointing the finger at international students for segregation and tension on campus doesn't deal with the root of the problem.
I strongly disagree! People spend the big money to go to private liberal arts colleges in part because they feel they have a unique social culture and it is going to be easier to make friends and there is going to be more people like them that they click with at the college. Make 50% fo the student body, almost overnight, international students who break into their own groups and ignore everyone else and the social contract that made this college such a nice place is gone.
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