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When I was in high school, the majority of "smart people" were not involved in clubs or activities, either. And if they were, it was usually limited to one, perhaps two, at most. So what has changed? Partially, it is self-imposed competition amongst the application pool.
I totally agree. THAT is what has changed. I don't think those with 1 EC or 4 EC do a different job of handling college. Maybe a better job of glad handling, some 10+ years down the line, which translates into checks returning to the institution.
Some people in my HS with NO extracurriculars: 1) already stated, physics professor at a well-known public university, 2) prominent attorney in a LA firm in a high rise, and 3) MD-rheumatologist, but he ran track and I don't remember that he was stellar.
The funny thing is that HS GPAs must be inflated. You see all these 3.8s and 3.9s. You don't see those in college, that's why they start stamping honors on your college diploma at 3.5. As for graduate school, while not medicine and law, I was stunned to see that the average GPA for a good MBAs like the Virginia MBA, for argument's sake, is a 3.4+ ... in ANYTHING. Sure, the GMATs are high, but a 3.48 for a coveted program is not that impressive.
Class Profile: MBA: Darden School of Business: UVA - UVA DardenA bit of clarification: an MBA is a professional degree; it is not graduate school. But you are right, in general a 3.0 is usually the minimum grade grad programs look for, but it is not necessarily the cut-off.
It sounds like it's harder to get into undergrad than it is to graduate school. There, if you have work experience, travel, and geographic breadth trumps being a volunteer or selling Girl Scout cookies.
I'm of the school of thought that one ought to go to a slightly easier flagship, bust your ass, and go to grad/professional school.
It seems that the majority of high school students speak of their GPAs as unweighted. Once the grades become weighted, which all admissions committees do as far as I know, those 3.9s/3.8s lower. However, the current trend in high school is to teach to test and to go out the way in order for students to succeed. So it shouldn't be too difficult to to graduate with a high GPA.
I am not sure about professional degrees such as an MBA, but graduate schools in general place lower emphasis on GPA. Grad school admissions committees are composed of faculty members, the majority of who teach. As current teachers, and former students, they know all too well that a student can earn an A, for example, in a variety of ways; that some professors are easier (or lazier) than others; that different institutions place more or less emphasis on certain subjects within respective programs; and so on. The GRE is not even that big of a deal as many grad programs know that it is more typical for a student to study how to take the GRE, concentrating on the tricks ETS employs and how to navigate around them. Besides, the GRE (and SAT/ACT) are not IQ tests. They do not measure intelligence, only knowledge. If given more time, more students would do better on quant, I would bet. That is one reason why grad schools place heavy emphasis on your SOP and LORs above GPA and GRE scores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
I'd say that out of 100 pre-meds, only a handful ever actually go to medical school; chemistry ( physical or organic ) usually weeds out most of these students..
Most pre-meds are bio majors. Some might be biochem, biophysics (physical biology) or even chemistry and some bio majors might take chem as a minor depending on if they have a particular career-path laid out (such as nuclear medicine, for example). However, if given the choice, most pre-meds will not take p-chem if they do not have to. At the core, they will take gen-chem, organic chem, and two semesters of physics . I hear that those who do take p-chem do better on the MCAT, but out of those pre-meds that I know (knew), none took any "harder" course that was not necessary. Essentially, they took the easiest courses in order to maintain high GPAs. Although I would imagine a pre-med at a top 20 school doing the harder route.
True, but most admissions officers can cut to the chase with that. If you mark down 40 hours/week of clubs/sports/volunteering plus school, plus homework--they know it's just not possible....
Maybe that was unique to your high school. In our high school, and now with our kids' high school, the sports teams, band, clubs, etc. are filled with all the top students.
Admissions want to see a few EC's that you have participated in for a long time. They don't want a laundry list of every club, sport, etc. that you tried for a year and dropped. That is a HUGE negative. They would rather see a couple sports, a couple clubs that you were in from 9th grade (or earlier) all through high school. They also don't want to see the 4.0 student that is in nothing....
In my high school (Pleistocene era) the "top students" did stuff like band (concert), choir [both of which one got credit for], student govt., theater and the like. Some did sports, but few did super high commitment sports like football. At my kids' HS, most kids did a sport, plus other activities such as the above, orchestra (credit), school newspaper (some for credit), National Honor Society, etc; some did outside school stuff like church and scouts. My kids' school didn't have "subject" clubs, e.g. chemistry club or "career" clubs such as FTA or FNA. I don't think a college would hold it against a student to have tried a few activities and not stayed with them. After all, that is what that phase of life is for, to try things. No college is interested in anything a student did before high school. In Colorado, for the public colleges, it doesn't matter if you did nothing, they just look at grades and test scores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv
It seems that the majority of high school students speak of their GPAs as unweighted. Once the grades become weighted, which all admissions committees do as far as I know, those 3.9s/3.8s lower. However, the current trend in high school is to teach to test and to go out the way in order for students to succeed. So it shouldn't be too difficult to to graduate with a high GPA.
I am not sure about professional degrees such as an MBA, but graduate schools in general place lower emphasis on GPA. Grad school admissions committees are composed of faculty members, the majority of who teach. As current teachers, and former students, they know all too well that a student can earn an A, for example, in a variety of ways; that some professors are easier (or lazier) than others; that different institutions place more or less emphasis on certain subjects within respective programs; and so on. The GRE is not even that big of a deal as many grad programs know that it is more typical for a student to study how to take the GRE, concentrating on the tricks ETS employs and how to navigate around them. Besides, the GRE (and SAT/ACT) are not IQ tests. They do not measure intelligence, only knowledge. If given more time, more students would do better on quant, I would bet. That is one reason why grad schools place heavy emphasis on your SOP and LORs above GPA and GRE scores.
Most pre-meds are bio majors. Some might be biochem, biophysics (physical biology) or even chemistry and some bio majors might take chem as a minor depending on if they have a particular career-path laid out (such as nuclear medicine, for example). However, if given the choice, most pre-meds will not take p-chem if they do not have to. At the core, they will take gen-chem, organic chem, and two semesters of physics . I hear that those who do take p-chem do better on the MCAT, but out of those pre-meds that I know (knew), none took any "harder" course that was not necessary. Essentially, they took the easiest courses in order to maintain high GPAs. Although I would imagine a pre-med at a top 20 school doing the harder route.
I think you have that weighted/unweighted thing mixed up. Colleges do not weight grades, and they usually un-weight high school grades when looking at them for admission. There is no one major for pre-meds. My personal physician was an art history major. One of the doctors in the practice where I work was an aeronautical engineering major. As long as they've taken the pre-reqs, the med schools don't care what the major was.
I am not sure about professional degrees such as an MBA, but graduate schools in general place lower emphasis on GPA. Grad school admissions committees are composed of faculty members, the majority of who teach.
I read your whole post, but this stood out. It could probably be a thread in and of itself. The MBA is definitely a graduate degree, but I would not consider it a professional degree.
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