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Old 02-17-2013, 05:38 AM
 
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I seriously doubt someone with an IQ of 90 would be able to score high enough on the SAT/ACT to get admitted to those schools without some major hook-all star athlete, etc.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
I seriously doubt someone with an IQ of 90 would be able to score high enough on the SAT/ACT to get admitted to those schools without some major hook-all star athlete, etc.
The SAT is not an IQ test.

Your IQ score varies not only with age but also with the time of day; it is not something that remains constant.

There are also different types of IQ tests, but on a "real" IQ test such as the Stanford-Binet that tests a little bit of everything a score of 90 is considered average. A person of average intelligence can score high on the SAT, and besides, the SAT is not the be-all-end-all to college admissions.

From Vanderbilt, read the section under I have a 29 on the ACT, am I a competitive applicant?
Understanding the Mid-50% | The Vandy Admissions Blog | Vanderbilt University

And for U Mich:
Frequently Asked Questions | Alumni Association of the University of Michigan


And as this link to Rutgers shows, those with average intelligence can most definitely get into college, but might be excluded from some majors. That is, of course, if you believe there is a correlation between IQ and SAT score.
Rutgers Admissions | GPA's and SAT's of previously admitted students, by school
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
The SAT is not an IQ test.

Your IQ score varies not only with age but also with the time of day; it is not something that remains constant.

There are also different types of IQ tests, but on a "real" IQ test such as the Stanford-Binet that tests a little bit of everything a score of 90 is considered average. A person of average intelligence can score high on the SAT, and besides, the SAT is not the be-all-end-all to college admissions.

From Vanderbilt, read the section under I have a 29 on the ACT, am I a competitive applicant?
Understanding the Mid-50% | The Vandy Admissions Blog | Vanderbilt University

And for U Mich:
Frequently Asked Questions | Alumni Association of the University of Michigan


And as this link to Rutgers shows, those with average intelligence can most definitely get into college, but might be excluded from some majors. That is, of course, if you believe there is a correlation between IQ and SAT score.
Rutgers Admissions | GPA's and SAT's of previously admitted students, by school
90 is one point above what we would have called "slow" back when we were in school. I stand by my point, someone functioning at that level would be hard pressed to score well enough on the ACT/SAT to be admitted to those schools mentioned. When you are talking top schools your test scores are VERY important and like I said, unless you have a hook, you are not getting in with sub-average scores.
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Old 02-17-2013, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
90 is one point above what we would have called "slow" back when we were in school. I stand by my point, someone functioning at that level would be hard pressed to score well enough on the ACT/SAT to be admitted to those schools mentioned. When you are talking top schools your test scores are VERY important and like I said, unless you have a hook, you are not getting in with sub-average scores.
IQ scores are reported in ranges to account test and/or testing errors. So even though a score of 90 is one point above 89, it still falls within the range of "normal/average".

I agree that a student with an IQ of 90 is more-than-likely going to produce average test scores, but my argument is that it is not always the case; a student with a 90 IQ can possibly score high enough to get into a competitive school.

It appears we are saying the same thing in regards to a "hook", which is what I meant by total application packet and not scores alone. Most schools, even top schools, admit students based on a combination of two criteria: how likely is the student to fit into the school, and, how likely will the student accept their offer. A stellar applicant to Rutgers is probably also applying to top 20 schools. And if this student is accepted to a top 20, Rutgers can say goodbye.

To top it off, many universities, including those in the Top 20, question the SATs indicative powers regarding collegiate success.

Here is a good article on IQ, the SAT, and college admissions:

The Sat And The Prep Business - What Does The Sat Really Measure? | Secrets Of The Sat | FRONTLINE | PBS
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:42 PM
 
Location: DFW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymrat View Post
IQ score does not matter. What are the GPA, SAT and ACT scores?
What are the EC's?

If this students scores are "below average" in ACT/SAT and GPA, I'd say it is highly unlikely they got accepted to the schools listed.


1) Below average (but still considered "normal") IQ, let's say 90.
No way this "below average" student was accepted into schools listed. Not even a competitive in state flagship.

2) Both parents are PhDs and raised him/her in a manner similar to Amy Chua.
Parents education does not matter.

3) Parents are NOT particularly rich or extremely well connected.. basically they started out with nothing and earned it all.
Parents financial status does not matter when it comes to college acceptance.

4) With a ton of pressure to do well in school and sacrificing everything (despite slightly below average intelligence), manages to get into a 2nd tier University (let's say Rutgers, Vanderbilt, U of Michigan, etc. Basically NOT Ivy League but immediately below it.)
How? Did they study around the clock for the ACT/SAT? What is the students GPA? Some kind of "hook" that got this kid into these schools?

5) Very little social skills, having sacrificed everything to be accepted to college.
There are kids that get into these schools with zilch in social skills. They may do well academically but the second they have to interact with others and it will effect their grade, forget it.

6) VERY hard worker.
Job? Parents are hard workers or student? What qualifies the student as "hard worker"?

7) Passionate about computers.
To the point of being a hacker? A lot of kids are passionate about computers. In what way is this one passionate? Are they developing new software? Do they have apps that they have created and sold? Kids that are passionate about computers are a dime a dozen. Needs something more to get into a good school and do well.
The IQ figure of "90" is just an arbitrary figure.

If the average IQ in a 2nd tier school is 130, then let's say his IQ is 105.

If the average IQ in a 2nd tier school is 160, then let's say his IQ is 135.

If the average IQ in a 2nd tier school is 120, then let's say his IQ is 95.

You get the point...

It could have said 85, 95, 100, or whatever and it would make no difference. My point is this person's IQ is VASTLY below the average IQ of the students in the 2nd Tier school he/she was admitted to but he/she made it up with 5-10 times the Effort!

Now, to restate my question.

Let's say this kid was raised in an environment where he/she is expected to study, study, study for many hours on end despite a below average to average intelligence. He/she has been subjected to this sort of high pressure treatment towards academics by his/her parents for many years (note: this is very rare in the US but a lot more common in South Korea, China, Japan, Hong Kong, etc.) And after Thousands of hours of hard work, far more than his/her peers who got into Ivy League schools, this kid is admitted to a 2nd Tier college.

Upon his 18th birthday and gaining "independence" from his/her parents, what path would you recommend for this person from this point on?
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Memphis, TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckdub View Post
I totally disagree with Jasper... If this person was able to do so well in school so far, they obviously have quite a bit of potential. Yes, much was sacrificed in the way of social interaction, etc., but the aptitude is there. Many people with average to below average intelligence can do VERY well.

I would encourage them to go to a smaller college with more personal attention from the profs and educational staff. (A college less than say 6,000 students.) Many colleges have assistance for students with learning disabilities or special circumstances. Get some social skills counseling through career services or an onsite counseling center. Focus on IT or computer training (what this person is passionate about), join the IT related clubs on campus, and go for it!

I would encourage him/her to do what I stated earlier. Whether or not this person was admitted into a 2nd tier school, the question remains, "Is this a good fit?" Also, I would ask what this person WANTS to do. That determines the path.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnarkar View Post
(This is entirely fictional but just want to see how others' would handle this situation)..

Key facts about the child:

1) Below average (but still considered "normal") IQ, let's say 90.

2) Both parents are PhDs and raised him/her in a manner similar to Amy Chua.

3) Parents are NOT particularly rich or extremely well connected.. basically they started out with nothing and earned it all.

4) With a ton of pressure to do well in school and sacrificing everything (despite slightly below average intelligence), manages to get into a 2nd tier University (let's say Rutgers, Vanderbilt, U of Michigan, etc. Basically NOT Ivy League but immediately below it.)

5) Very little social skills, having sacrificed everything to be accepted to college.

6) VERY hard worker.

7) Passionate about computers.

Given the above hypothetical facts, what advice would you give to such a person upon entering college for his/her education and later career?
For a student with a 90 IQ and an interest in computers I would recommend that they do not pursue a BA/BS in Computer Science. They will not be able to complete the coursework for that degree and will wind up spending a lot of money and wasting a lot of time.

Instead I would tell that student to pursue an AA or a certification (like a Microsoft cert) at a community college. The community college in my area offers a wide selection of computer classes that are vocationally oriented. Students that graduate have good experiences in the job market.

Broward College - Computer Science

These are probably more easily attainable by someone with a lower than average IQ. I would also advise this person to work on their social skills as they are very important in the workplace. A pleasant, competent person who can fix computer problems will go further than a dour, unpleasant person who can fix computers.

I find it difficult to believe that a person with a 90 IQ meeting the middle 50% SAT score at Vanderbilt which is:

Reading 690-770
Math 710-790
Writing 670-770

SAT scores are highly correlated with IQ.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:09 AM
 
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Also define "2nd tier". To me a school in the top 20 isn't 2nd tier (like Vandy).
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:19 PM
 
Location: DFW
6,793 posts, read 11,712,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
For a student with a 90 IQ and an interest in computers I would recommend that they do not pursue a BA/BS in Computer Science. They will not be able to complete the coursework for that degree and will wind up spending a lot of money and wasting a lot of time.

Instead I would tell that student to pursue an AA or a certification (like a Microsoft cert) at a community college. The community college in my area offers a wide selection of computer classes that are vocationally oriented. Students that graduate have good experiences in the job market.

Broward College - Computer Science

These are probably more easily attainable by someone with a lower than average IQ. I would also advise this person to work on their social skills as they are very important in the workplace. A pleasant, competent person who can fix computer problems will go further than a dour, unpleasant person who can fix computers.

I find it difficult to believe that a person with a 90 IQ meeting the middle 50% SAT score at Vanderbilt which is:

Reading 690-770
Math 710-790
Writing 670-770

SAT scores are highly correlated with IQ.
90 is just an arbitrary number and not important in itself. How about we redefine it as "in the bottom 1% of IQs of all Vanderbilt admits"? What the answer to my question based on that? See my earlier post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Also define "2nd tier". To me a school in the top 20 isn't 2nd tier (like Vandy).
It's unimportant. It's an artificial construct not central to the main problem discussed here. It's all relative as well. Does the answer to my question change whether I define Vanderbilt as 1st tier, 2nd, tier, 5th tier, etc.?
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:26 PM
 
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ragnarkar--like I said, not happening. If these "hypothetical" parents want a realistic view of his chances, have him take a practice ACT or SAT test and see what he scores.....
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