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There are vast legal differences between instituions of higher education (both public & private) and the elementary, middle & public schools. If you want to do a quick litmus test about how these institutions exist to service you look at the requirement for Individualized Education Plan in both structures and the ramifications of them. Very formal in the k-12 world - not required in the higher education world. All that needs to be done is provide reasonable accomodations as dictated by law - nothing more, nothing less.
You have a choice of where to attend. You complete an application and pay a fee to the institution to accept this application. If accepted you agree to a wide variety of stipulations - including a code of conduct. If you get expelled from a university, the university down the street doesn't have to take you in - the state doesn't have to provide you with any higher education.
In the MN case I mentioned previously you can see a very clear picture of how this relates to speech as well - the student was expelled from their public university and it was upheld by the state supreme court on grounds that would not be applicable to any HS biology student.
This is simply your opinion, which has zero legal standing, and in my opinion very little wisdom. Unless you are a lawyer trained in the particular specialty under discussion, your opinion would not be considered competent. That's the problem here. The OP is getting a lot of incompetent, armchair-amateur advice about a legal matter, when he needs competent professional counsel in a very serious matter. That's why my advice to OP, and my only advice to OP, is to consult a competent professional before his day with the kangaroo court.
By the way -- have you ever been a part of a university disciplinary proceeding? It might enlighten you to see how these things actually work (I was a kangaroo myself once upon a time).
Evidently, you missed the part about "directly related to established professional conduct standards," which clearly does not apply to the situation under discussion in this thread. In the case of OP, there is no established profession involved, and therefore no established professional standards to consider.
What you have just done with this example illustrates the danger of armchair lawyering and emphasizes the value of trained, experienced counsel. Another factor to consider, which I have not looked into, is "who was the injured party?" Was it the university,or was it the family who donated the cadaver?
However, it does clearly illustrate that you can have differences between higher and primary education.
It also clearly shows that when you violate rules that you agreed to uphold that it goes back towards you.
There aren't that many of these cases that make it up to the supreme court at any level - a lot of them reference the existing cases in their earlier decisions.
In this particular case the lower case referenced a previous ruling, they appealed and the supreme court held the result by not the reasoning adding a newer layer that deals with professional standards - just further defining the scope .... this also dealt with content that 100% through a 3rd party (her individual facebook posts) .... basically she said on facebook that she wanted to stab her cadaver in the throat with a trocar to take out aggression she has for a certain someone
There will be a lot more stuff in the future i'm sure as it relates to social media and things of the like .... however there are decades upon decades of examples of code of conduct violations sticking
Let's look at the University of Virginia - they have one remedy to a full violation of thier honor code and that is expulsion - they are a public university and in 1998-1999 they expelled close to 20 students for violation of the code
The times in recent history where they have had issues getting anything to stick as far as honor code violations are when they didn't follow their own due process
Again, if you look at all the examples out there institutions don't do a great job at following their due process - that will get them in trouble - not having a code of conduct with expulsion as a potential punishment for violations .... which is why it's important to get to know your code and handbook
Then you have places like BYU that have very strict honor codes that cover many personal actions
This is simply your opinion, which has zero legal standing, and in my opinion very little wisdom. Unless you are a lawyer trained in the particular specialty under discussion, your opinion would not be considered competent. That's the problem here. The OP is getting a lot of incompetent, armchair-amateur advice about a legal matter, when he needs competent professional counsel in a very serious matter. That's why my advice to OP, and my only advice to OP, is to consult a competent professional before his day with the kangaroo court.
By the way -- have you ever been a part of a university disciplinary proceeding? It might enlighten you to see how these things actually work (I was a kangaroo myself once upon a time).
Actually yeah - my brother was kicked off his college basketball team and expelled from college so I was able to see it from that side and I was able to see it from the other side during my own studies
I also would definitely agree with seeing a lawyer - just don't expect much .... you can get the same result or better by just being an adult and dealing with your mistakes instead of trying to dodge them
If that doesn't work and they still want to kick you out - then invest in a good lawyer - at this point, just try to get it behind you, learn your lesson and move on
If I were you, I would apologize to the school immediately, say you realize you shouldn't have done it, and say you have no excuse for your poor behavior. Getting out of expulsion is a human behavior experiment. If you walk in and claim you did nothing wrong and insist you were justified in your actions, the school is going to expel you because you will come across as an ungrateful, offensive, arrogant student (regardless of if it is true or not). If you come in and it seems like you regret your actions and have beaten yourself up over it, the person administering the discipline will feel like an a**hole for coming down very hard on you, and will more than likely show some leniency. You want to come across as the good student who had a moment of poor judgement, and as someone who is extremely regretful of that poor behavior. That is the kind of person that an administration will give a pass on.
Whatever you do, don't argue that you were actually right to the disciplinary committee, as that would be the nail in the coffin for you.
There is absolutely no law that protects freedom of speech within an organization..
The 1st amendment only prohibits the GOVERNMENT from infringing on free speech rights. It does not cover any private organization one voluntarily joins, whether a school, employer, church, etc.
you couldve simply removed yourself from the application process and walked away. their was no need to act crazy. one mans trash is anothers treasure. just because you wouldnt do the job or had no respect for it doesnt me another student wouldnt. it was just poor behavior. but many have made mistakes and taken the fight for everything you believe in during your stage of life. the dean is mad because your behavior reflects the students. it was through the career site. if you had found the role through a third party site then the dean would have no right to say anything. cest la vie. you live and learn. good luck.
I just talked with the career services people and they seemed nice but similar to the dean...they all said I will have to talk with a higher office....=[
This whole thing is really ridiculous. Although I did use the career services to initially apply, I did that with 30+ firms and a brand new email came from that firm with nothing regarding my university(no cc/from). So how would I remember if it was from the career services or Craigslist?
I googled around for profanity expulsion cases in education and I guess there were cases of students using it on their facebook/twitter accounts and getting kicked out.
If I do get expelled/suspended for this act.....it only creates monsters in society. All I was trying to do was be righteous and strive for a better tomorrow, but I have to deal with my actions.
I can't even concentrate in my studies anymore because I could be expelled next week for all I know. 4 years of my life gone.
So over life right now, thanks to all trying to defend me....it gives me a little slim chance of hope
Evidently, you missed the part about "directly related to established professional conduct standards," which clearly does not apply to the situation under discussion in this thread. In the case of OP, there is no established profession involved, and therefore no established professional standards to consider.
What you have just done with this example illustrates the danger of armchair lawyering and emphasizes the value of trained, experienced counsel. Another factor to consider, which I have not looked into, is "who was the injured party?" Was it the university,or was it the family who donated the cadaver?
I pointed to this case to illustrate that your argument that the OP attends a public university is irrelevant.
That said, no reason for the OP not to see an attorney. Try for a free consultation so you don't waste your money.
In the end, though, I hope the OP will somehow get the idea that his behavior was completely out of line, and it's not just the technicality of using university resources. Maybe an expulsion would give him time to contemplate his actions, before he turned into a "monster" that is.
Last edited by Glenfield; 03-01-2013 at 07:31 PM..
Can you respond with an intelligent, thought out answer, or can you admit you are uneducated and making things up as you go?
Aren't you embarrassed at how you are basically admitting that you are extremely uneducated?
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The 1st amendment only prohibits the GOVERNMENT from infringing on free speech rights. It does not cover any private organization one voluntarily joins, whether a school, employer, church, etc.
