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Old 04-03-2013, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Miami/ Washington DC
4,836 posts, read 11,978,796 times
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A Criminal Justice degree may be the most useless degree ever invented.

I work at a fed agency and have spoken to some of the LEOs. They aren't agents but they aren't uniformed officers either and make a good salary. He said you just have to be the right person and be intelligent. As long as you are the right person, smart and have the right mind set for the job he can teach you how to be a good agent. Anyone can learn the stuff they teach at the academy or how to shoot a gun.

Do something which makes you marketable. Forensics science is something that would, accounting to business would too. Another language is great.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:44 PM
 
1,624 posts, read 4,861,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by th3vault View Post
Law enforcement doesn't have much respect for it, but to be quite honest law enforcement has a lot more respect for military service than any degree. Especially in this downturn, most agencies have focused recruitment on veterans.

As for the CJ degree, it is useful in the private security field and may be useful for other aspects of the CJ system other than sworn law enforcement. That's better than most liberal arts degrees.
Law enforcement doesn't care about CJ because they all have very extensive training programs that cover the relevant CJ topics you need for your job. So the CJ is basically duplicative and you could have used that time in college learning other stuff that could be helpful, i.e. psych, sociology, management, public administration, history/government, even computer science, etc.

Private security doesn't have extensive training programs, so yes, they would prefer a CJ applicant over one with a general B.A. But what you fail to mention is that private security, especially those that pay signficantly more than minimum wage, will always hire a qualified ex-law enforcement or military applicant over a CJ major with no experience.

That's why CJ isn't as important as just getting a well rounded education and doing well at it. That's important for law enforcement jobs, which is the key to private security jobs (if you aren't military) later down the road. If worse comes to worse, you aren't limited in that field if you decide CJ jobs aren't for you.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:37 PM
 
Location: NM
1,211 posts, read 1,851,365 times
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I plan to be a LEO myself after college, and I'm going for an Accounting degree in case things do not work out. Most PDs don't really care what kind of degree you hold as long as you have one. It becomes important if you ever want to move beyond Patrol.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:38 PM
 
7,005 posts, read 12,446,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim04 View Post
Law enforcement doesn't care about CJ because they all have very extensive training programs that cover the relevant CJ topics you need for your job. So the CJ is basically duplicative and you could have used that time in college learning other stuff that could be helpful, i.e. psych, sociology, management, public administration, history/government, even computer science, etc.

Private security doesn't have extensive training programs, so yes, they would prefer a CJ applicant over one with a general B.A. But what you fail to mention is that private security, especially those that pay signficantly more than minimum wage, will always hire a qualified ex-law enforcement or military applicant over a CJ major with no experience.

That's why CJ isn't as important as just getting a well rounded education and doing well at it. That's important for law enforcement jobs, which is the key to private security jobs (if you aren't military) later down the road. If worse comes to worse, you aren't limited in that field if you decide CJ jobs aren't for you.
Yes. I have seen this many times in the private security industry. If there are any high-paying jobs to be had, they almost always go to someone who is ex-military or ex-law enforcement. Oftentimes, they will require or state a preference for a CJ degree; but, they will just hire an ex-cop or ex-military with a CJ degree. I've actually seen job ads that stated a CJ or related degree was required, but someone who was ex-LE with a degree in an unrelated field was hired. I knew one person in the corporate security industry with an engineering degree and I knew another with a sociology degree.

However, I will say it again, a psychology or sociology degree is not a good alternative to a CJ degree. Undergraduate sociology and psychology degrees might be able to get you jobs in social services (and so can a CJ degree), but the field is oversaturated. There are way too many people with bachelors degrees in psychology and there are not enough jobs for them. Psychology really only becomes useful when you get a masters and become an LPC/LMHC or when you get a PhD/PsyD and become a psychologist. Don't even get me started on the history degree. It wouldn't help much in the LEO field unless you're federal LEO and you studied non-Western history (Middle East history, Asian history, etc.). There aren't many job openings at museums and the public school system has enough history teachers in most areas.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
1,782 posts, read 3,934,464 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim04 View Post
Law enforcement doesn't care about CJ because they all have very extensive training programs that cover the relevant CJ topics you need for your job. So the CJ is basically duplicative and you could have used that time in college learning other stuff that could be helpful, i.e. psych, sociology, management, public administration, history/government, even computer science, etc.

Private security doesn't have extensive training programs, so yes, they would prefer a CJ applicant over one with a general B.A. But what you fail to mention is that private security, especially those that pay signficantly more than minimum wage, will always hire a qualified ex-law enforcement or military applicant over a CJ major with no experience.

That's why CJ isn't as important as just getting a well rounded education and doing well at it. That's important for law enforcement jobs, which is the key to private security jobs (if you aren't military) later down the road. If worse comes to worse, you aren't limited in that field if you decide CJ jobs aren't for you.
Not many cops are going to leave their pension for full time private security. Instead they moonlight for overtime at the actual locations rather than leaving LE entirely for security management. Former military isn't necessarily given preference, there is no veteran's preference system in security like with government jobs. I saw a job the other day that required veterans be either combat arms or career but a CJ BS was another way to qualify for the job. Granted it wasn't the best pay, but that's the barrier to entry these days.

We are confusing two different sectors of the security field.

High paying operational jobs (bodyguard, pirate patrol contract) want law enforcement and military (combat arms or special forces). You don't need a degree at all for those.

High paying managerial jobs (managing contract company, in house security etc) are like other white collar office jobs. You start at the the bottom out of college and work your way up in the field. They tend to promote from within and cops usually don't leave their pensions to apply for the entry level jobs.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:24 AM
 
Location: Florida
1,782 posts, read 3,934,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Yes. I have seen this many times in the private security industry. If there are any high-paying jobs to be had, they almost always go to someone who is ex-military or ex-law enforcement. Oftentimes, they will require or state a preference for a CJ degree; but, they will just hire an ex-cop or ex-military with a CJ degree. I've actually seen job ads that stated a CJ or related degree was required, but someone who was ex-LE with a degree in an unrelated field was hired. I knew one person in the corporate security industry with an engineering degree and I knew another with a sociology degree.

However, I will say it again, a psychology or sociology degree is not a good alternative to a CJ degree. Undergraduate sociology and psychology degrees might be able to get you jobs in social services (and so can a CJ degree), but the field is oversaturated. There are way too many people with bachelors degrees in psychology and there are not enough jobs for them. Psychology really only becomes useful when you get a masters and become an LPC/LMHC or when you get a PhD/PsyD and become a psychologist. Don't even get me started on the history degree. It wouldn't help much in the LEO field unless you're federal LEO and you studied non-Western history (Middle East history, Asian history, etc.). There aren't many job openings at museums and the public school system has enough history teachers in most areas.
CJ graduates may have to start at lower levels than in years past, but with enough experience they promote pretty well in corporate and contract security management.

High paying operational jobs usually require military or law enforcement experience and don't give two hoots about education.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:39 AM
 
7,005 posts, read 12,446,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by th3vault View Post
Not many cops are going to leave their pension for full time private security. Instead they moonlight for overtime at the actual locations rather than leaving LE entirely for security management. Former military isn't necessarily given preference, there is no veteran's preference system in security like with government jobs. I saw a job the other day that required veterans be either combat arms or career but a CJ BS was another way to qualify for the job. Granted it wasn't the best pay, but that's the barrier to entry these days.

We are confusing two different sectors of the security field.

High paying operational jobs (bodyguard, pirate patrol contract) want law enforcement and military (combat arms or special forces). You don't need a degree at all for those.

High paying managerial jobs (managing contract company, in house security etc) are like other white collar office jobs. You start at the the bottom out of college and work your way up in the field. They tend to promote from within and cops usually don't leave their pensions to apply for the entry level jobs.
I know I was talking about the contract security field, the companies that contract with businesses and local governments. There is no veteran's preference, point system like with governments; but that does not mean the industry does not prefer hiring veterans. I had applied for a supervisory position awhile back at a security company. They reposted their ad soon after stating that they were looking for veterans to fill supervisory and management positions. A lot of people are able to retire from law enforcement with a full pension in 30 years. This leaves a lot of relatively young people who aren't ready to retire and they often seek employment in other areas of the CJ field. I can tell you that almost all of the managers I had at the security company I used to work at were former military or LE. The government agency we had a contract with had security specialists, security managers, and a security director. One of the specialists was former military; all of the other security personnel were former law enforcement. They were white collar, paper pushers who mostly monitored what the contract guards did.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 15,146,736 times
Reputation: 3614
In the UK



There are no formal educational requirements for entry to the police service. The profession is open to graduates, those with an HND qualification and non-graduates alike. Recruitment and selection procedures are managed by police forces at a local level, although a nationally agreed competency-based framework is applied.
Entry is open to British and Commonwealth citizens, EC/EEA citizens and foreign nationals who have no restrictions on their leave to remain in the UK.
Pre-entry experience is not essential, although it is advantageous to have some experience of working with individuals or groups in the community, such as sports coaching or working with local youth groups.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:53 AM
 
7,005 posts, read 12,446,591 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3vault View Post
CJ graduates may have to start at lower levels than in years past, but with enough experience they promote pretty well in corporate and contract security management.

High paying operational jobs usually require military or law enforcement experience and don't give two hoots about education.
I have only known one person with a CJ degree and no military/LE experience who promoted quickly within a contract security company. She was incompetent and fired last month. That's not to say that there aren't any incompetent security managers who are ex-LE/military because I've known a few. One of my former operations managers was hired right out of the military with no business experience. He was and still is awful at his job. The first company shut down and he was hired as a manager for another by the owner who is a current LEO. Anyway, that former operations manager started off by not promoting from within and hiring former corrections/LE/military directly as supervisors.

I have no LE experience, but I was also one of the few degreed people in the company. I studied criminal justice and psychology. I promoted up one rank and was about to promote to another before I left and after almost 4 years of being there. That next rank paid $12 an hour. We were taken over by another company and none of the people with seniority were considered for management positions. They always hired former LE/military externally.

Most of the people who had the sense and intelligence to earn a degree in anything left or had plans to leave like I did. They knew there was no future career for them. Who wants to work at a company with a degree for 5-10 years making $9-12 an hour praying that their company will eventually promote from within?
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Florida
1,782 posts, read 3,934,464 times
Reputation: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
I know I was talking about the contract security field, the companies that contract with businesses and local governments. There is no veteran's preference, point system like with governments; but that does not mean the industry does not prefer hiring veterans. I had applied for a supervisory position awhile back at a security company. They reposted their ad soon after stating that they were looking for veterans to fill supervisory and management positions. A lot of people are able to retire from law enforcement with a full pension in 30 years. This leaves a lot of relatively young people who aren't ready to retire and they often seek employment in other areas of the CJ field. I can tell you that almost all of the managers I had at the security company I used to work at were former military or LE. The government agency we had a contract with had security specialists, security managers, and a security director. One of the specialists was former military; all of the other security personnel were former law enforcement. They were white collar, paper pushers who mostly monitored what the contract guards did.
There's the issue. On USAJOBS, security positions not only prefer veterans they actually state only veterans preference eligible candidates will be considered. If they are internal, it is virtually impossible to get in without preference or direct transfer within the federal system.

I'm not going to deny that cops sometimes get hired over others even in the private sector, but (outside of government internal security) it is by no means an absolute bar to advancement. Get the degree, start at the bottom and work up and they will get into decent management roles in contract or corporate security. I know several CJ graduates in the field who worked their way into decent jobs and don't have any law enforcement or military experience.

This is like saying someone shouldn't major in business because employers prefer hiring Wharton MBA's for jobs with decent pay. Technically true, but that doesn't mean a regular business graduate who starts in a lower level position and works their way up can't get a decent job.
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