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And thats my question. Just what is the percentage that makes it to the top at those firms. Far less than 10% I'm thinking. More than that these firms have been known to let a lot of partners go the last few years.
Not nearly as rosy as soci3tycat thinks. In fact, I know a couple that have been forced out (so to speak) in the last 2-3 years.
I never said it was rosy. Some people have that life. Most don't. That's life.
I don't have that life yet either. At the moment, I'm just a peon. But to deny that that is the pay at those firms is ridiculous. It means you've either never worked at one, never had peers working at one or fired from one, and/or refuse to acknowledge data.
If you read the entire thread, the income calculation was based on the fact his friend had been working 10 years at a firm as a corporate attorney and graduated from top undergrad and graduate schools. I wrote that UNDER THE POSITIVE ASSUMPTION he did very well and went into Big Law and survived 10 years, his income shouldn't be $150,000.
It turns out he wasn't in Big Law and isn't good at getting promotions. There is no reason to incorrectly assume I stated "this is the life of all attorneys/professionals." It's not. It's incredibly difficult to even get hired by a top firm.
People don't read and are so eager to misinterpret everything in threads.
Last edited by soci3tycat; 05-07-2013 at 04:58 PM..
Top schools do not guarantee success at all. This is even more true if they only have undergrad degrees. You may be older, and with that I respect your personal experiences etc., but what you have come to know through your experiences does not mean that is the only way things always are. Your peers are not my peers, and vice versa. Further, while there is a significantly smaller number of individuals who go to top schools, over the years, there's a lot of people who managed to go to top schools. Not all graduates of top schools are the same, and especially not if the benchmark is undergrad institutions. Too much variability to say something for Ivy League grads is definitely "this way" or "not this way."
You were the person who said all your friends two years out of school and making 300K a year went to top 10 schools. I just mentioned it because you did.
Now you say school means nothing.
I'm not exactly sure what your point is?
That there's people making dirty filthy money? Yes, I agree.
That corporate lawyers in NYC are losers if they are making ONLY 150K at age 38? Disagree.
School doesn't mean nothing. It means something. Basic logical argument- someone saying "school is not everything," does not imply or give license to the deduction that then "school must be worth nothing." What I said is that school itself does NOT decide success or get you a job or determine whether you keep one.
Also, you left out an important detail and are purposely twisting my words. I said: "attorneys working in Big Law for 10 years and only earning $150,000 are losers." They're being scammed and underpaid. I never said "all attorneys who make $150,000 are losers." There's a significant difference in the sentences.
And I'm not sure why you just pointed out that I mentioned some of my friends were making a lot of money. What don't you get that I was showing variability within people who graduated from top schools? My example in contrast to yours shows there is variability. Just because you went to top schools doesn't mean you will all have the same fate. Some of your friends didn't make as much as mine. You really expect everyone's experiences to conform to yours and yours alone if they went to top schools? I really thought based on your other posts you wouldn't be type to make deductions like this or other logical fallacies/word twisting.
And again, twisting my words. I never said all my friends or peers made $300,000 out of school. I stated 2 insane examples. 2 is not all. And they are really abnormal; that kind of salary at that age I think is really exclusive to options / ETF trading, which I would never be able to do.
Last edited by soci3tycat; 05-07-2013 at 05:43 PM..
School doesn't mean nothing. It means something. Basic logical argument- someone saying "school is not everything," does not imply or license the deduction that then "school must be worth nothing." What I said is that school itself does NOT decide success or get you a job or determine whether you keep one.
Also, you left out an important detail and are purposely twisting my words. I said: "attorneys working in Big Law for 10 years and only earning $150,000 are losers." They're being scammed and underpaid. I never said "all attorneys who make $150,000 are losers." There's a significant difference in the sentences.
And I'm not sure why you just pointed out that I mentioned some of my friends were making a lot of money. What don't you get that I was showing variability within people who graduated from top schools? My example in contrast to yours shows there is variability. Just because you went to top schools doesn't mean you will all have the same fate.
Uhh. My friend that you were doubting is the positive variability.
150K is a LOT of $. That is what I'm trying to say to you. Why don't you read the salaries on the rest of my list.
That is a lot of $. You'll be making that in May or June? That's great.
I didn't doubt your friend was a corporate attorney. What do you mean by doubting him? Why do you think I implied that? Or do you mean the income. Under the positive assumptions, I doubted he made $150,000 but I never meant to say I doubted him. Also, it depends on where you live, too. If you live in Kansas or a smaller city, $200,000 is a huge crapton and is doing great.
I want to give some minor background- I live in a big city, and after taxation and paying for living costs, like food and an apt that's a decent distance from work and safer, which are unfortunately regularly $1500-2500 in this expensive ass city, paying 12%+ tax all the time, and paying off loans--$150,000 doesn't go as far as one would hope/like.
I want to clarify I'm not saying my income sucks. But if someone had loans, you know, it would all be going towards paying off their school for a long while. The people in fortunate situations are the ones with no loans. I think most grad students have loans thought maybe I'm wrong. But if a student has loans and making $150,000, it's a good situation to eventually pay them off, but life isn't super easy or awesome in the interim either.
I wasn't trying to come off snobbish or rude, and if you felt that way, I really did not intend for it to come off like that. I meant well. I was just assuming THE BEST of your friend, and I don't think either of us meant to argue over something like this.
Last edited by soci3tycat; 05-07-2013 at 05:36 PM..
Well soci3tycat, I certainly wouldn't assume all is well if I were you. Have you been offered that job yet or are you thinking that you will be?
I know someone that worked at one of the top tax law firms in NY. She was told that she'd make (not made) partner, was there for about 6 years. And after all those assurances she came in one morning and, to her surprise, was fired. She later got a job with the feds (good cut in pay!), today a lot of her friends are calling asking if there are any vacancies where she now works.
You sound very much like some of the overly optimistic recent college graduates I use to interview. Who also believes the cool-aid.
Offered. I wouldn't say I had a job when I didn't. Longterm bf's family are large shareholders for one of their largest accounts. We're getting engaged once I graduate. Not the typical process.
6 years is typically the time you either make non-share partner or they ask you to leave. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I try to think positive and that things happen for a reason. In the best case scenario, maybe she loves her new job better, met the love of her life through it, etc. While govt pays less, it's certainly an important job and position to be in that has the potential to impact so many individuals. Hopefully she has better hours, etc. If she loves being a lawyer in her old environment though, I hope she can break back into the field.
As for interviewing, if I was an attorney interviewing applicants, I'd never compare or put an overly optimistic college student and grad student in the exact same boat.
Last edited by soci3tycat; 05-07-2013 at 06:56 PM..
About a decade ago I joined the federal government as a high-level media communications manager. It is highly unlikely that I will change careers or employers at this point .
How did you get that gig?
Always nice to meet a fellow "recovering journalist".
I got a BS in Journalism and a minor in Political Science--worked as a freelance writer, graphic designer, and non-profit development officer and grant writer(along with a ton of crappy temp jobs) for some years out of college.
Ended up a project coordinator for a energy consulting firm and basically taught myself database programming, SQL, data analysis, advanced Excel skills, and so on. Now I work as an analyst for an energy utility agency that's an arm of the Department of Energy.
Did what I learned in college help me with my current position? Some of the quantitative analysis skills I learned as a political science minor has helped--as far as a journalism major goes, you get out of it as much as you want to. I've always been a fairly skilled writer, though you have have the willingness to keep writing hone your style to really have any sort of distinct style. If anything the amount of writing I did as a journalism major and freelance writer allowed me to have some degree of confidence in written communication. On the other hand though there's a ton of competent writers out there. Having the ability to write only matters in most positions if you're a subject matter expert as well.
Looking back, I'd probably major in something else. At age 18, I had no idea of how the world actually worked or what I wanted to do. Though I always found subjects like computer science or engineering a little to dry for my tastes--though those are the fields I sort of wish I had the stomach for. But I'm more pragamatic--I can learn a language--whether foreign or computer--on my own, if I feel there's something to be gained from it. Though I just can't see myself getting into an IT position--just seems a little boring.
Last edited by Deezus; 05-07-2013 at 06:20 PM..
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