Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That advice is not particularly great. A so-so student is probably even more likely to wash out of a trade apprenticeship than they are to flunk out of college. And the costs are not necessary that much cheaper for an apprenticeship; the only difference is that you can earn a wage while you are an apprentice. Of course, if you get part way through college, you at least get some credit during hiring for attending college.
If you wash out of an apprenticeship, you are left with nothing.
1) It's not just about the $. Yes, blue collar jobs can pay just as well as white collar jobs. It's not all about that. Blue collar jobs are a lot of physical work and take a toll on the body. Those who do not want that lifestyle should go to college, no matter how bad they are at school.
2) What about women? What do they do?
3) High school is such a small microcosm of your life. Students who were poor performers in high school could gain maturity right after and easily outperform those who whupped them in high school.
I'm one who believe except for a small amount at the top and bottom, most of us have a pretty equal level of innate intelligence. So, performing well at school is a function of more work ethic than intelligence.
Of course, Bloomy is one of those geniuses at the top, so of course he thinks that society should be stratified based on 'intelligence'.
1) It's not just about the $. Yes, blue collar jobs can pay just as well as white collar jobs. It's not all about that. Blue collar jobs are a lot of physical work and take a toll on the body. Those who do not want that lifestyle should go to college, no matter how bad they are at school.
2) What about women? What do they do?
3) High school is such a small microcosm of your life. Students who were poor performers in high school could gain maturity right after and easily outperform those who whupped them in high school.
I'm one who believe except for a small amount at the top and bottom, most of us have a pretty equal level of innate intelligence. So, performing well at school is a function of more work ethic than intelligence.
Of course, Bloomy is one of those geniuses at the top, so of course he thinks that society should be stratified based on 'intelligence'.
lol, why don't medical schools just admit anyone and there will be tens of millions doctors. Doctors are well paid.
Sounds ridiculous? Yes, it is.
Jobs cannot be created simply because colleges enroll more students. The number of white collar jobs available stays about the same no matter how many people are college educated.
Around here plumbers need to go to vo-tech then apprenticeships, etc. to earn $15/hour. Sure, if you can save enough up on the $15/hour you can open your own shop someday and do fairly well, provided there are jobs in your area but most plumbers are not doing all that great, nor are electricians, etc. The grunt laborers don't make very good money. That 2 year vo-tech degree is still going to cost you $10,000+, not including transportation costs and living expenses, with no financial aid, which is more than they would pay out of pocket at 100's of 4 year schools across the country....
Around here plumbers need to go to vo-tech then apprenticeships, etc. to earn $15/hour. Sure, if you can save enough up on the $15/hour you can open your own shop someday and do fairly well, provided there are jobs in your area but most plumbers are not doing all that great, nor are electricians, etc. The grunt laborers don't make very good money. That 2 year vo-tech degree is still going to cost you $10,000+, not including transportation costs and living expenses, with no financial aid, which is more than they would pay out of pocket at 100's of 4 year schools across the country....
The average plumber makes $40K a year (see Plumber I Salary - Salary.com ). Here in MN, they bill out at $110 an hour. The easy solution is to be a one-man-band plumber and keep 100% of that $110 an hour. The overhead is reasonable ($50K). Is the competition tough? Then reduce your price to $75 an hour and have lines outside your door. When you get busy and you need to reduce the demand, slowly increase your price as you build business. Most plumbers are not that business savvy or are risk adverse like the rest of American's. It's harder to own your own business with most 4 year degrees. I've learned early on that business owners and corporations don't like to share their profits. The solution is control your own destiny and be the owner.
So Bloomberg's recommendation is spot on. I've lectured my kids not to pick a career that can be outsourced. Even an airline mechanic which was a high paying blue collar job now can be outsourced (planes can land in China to get serviced). Heck, a Radiologist files can be emailed to India to be read.
But he is right, college isn't for everyone. I know some incredibly successful people in the trades. All of which own their own businesses.
The average plumber makes $40K a year (see Plumber I Salary - Salary.com ). Here in MN, they bill out at $110 an hour. The easy solution is to be a one-man-band plumber and keep 100% of that $110 an hour. The overhead is reasonable ($50K). Is the competition tough? Then reduce your price to $75 an hour and have lines outside your door. When you get busy and you need to reduce the demand, slowly increase your price as you build business. Most plumbers are not that business savvy or are risk adverse like the rest of American's. It's harder to own your own business with most 4 year degrees. I've learned early on that business owners and corporations don't like to share their profits. The solution is control your own destiny and be the owner.
So Bloomberg's recommendation is spot on. I've lectured my kids not to pick a career that can be outsourced. Even an airline mechanic which was a high paying blue collar job now can be outsourced (planes can land in China to get serviced). Heck, a Radiologist files can be emailed to India to be read.
But he is right, college isn't for everyone. I know some incredibly successful people in the trades. All of which own their own businesses.
There are simply too many college degrees that don't lead to any specific career.
The average plumber makes $40K a year (see Plumber I Salary - Salary.com ). Here in MN, they bill out at $110 an hour. The easy solution is to be a one-man-band plumber and keep 100% of that $110 an hour. The overhead is reasonable ($50K). Is the competition tough? Then reduce your price to $75 an hour and have lines outside your door.
You cannot do that though until you make journeyman. You can make it without the pipefitters, but if you have the academic talent to make it without the pipefitters, you could have easily made it through college too. If you are going through the pipefitters, then you are paying $50k in tuition for votech before you put up your $50k in overhead costs (it is actually much more than that). And you will probably never make master as a one man shop.
Chisel out dues, self-employment taxes, insurance, bonding, supplies, and that $75/hr becomes very inadequate very fast.
You cannot do that though until you make journeyman.
Work for someone else and learn from them. After you get your hours, quit and start your own business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6
Chisel out dues, self-employment taxes, insurance, bonding, supplies, and that $75/hr becomes very inadequate very fast.
Keep your overhead in check and you will be in fine shape. To make a lot more $$'s, you need to learn how to sell. You are not going to make all that much on service alone.
There are simply too many college degrees that don't lead to any specific career.
You should not be going to college to "obtain a career". Your natural skills and talents are what make you marketable to employers, and college should be either a finishing school or the foundation for professional education (law school, medical school, etc). Prior to the 1960s, people went to college because they were part of a certain class, and it was a luxury - they did not necessarily go to learn a particular occupation within the context of undergraduate work. Consequently, liberal arts institutions thrived; college was seen as a rite of passage and these graduates were seen as desirable to employers based on a combination of their intelligence, social class, and achievements.
This focus on translating one's undergraduate work into a career is a function of selling college as a "ticket out" of the lower middle and working classes (and below). These people largely would not have been found on college campuses decades ago. Consequently, the college education has been diluted as institutions of poor reputation and substandard quality have admitted students who have no business in a classroom after high school.
If you need a career, develop your skills through technical schools or professional schools - these are vocational-related educations. Undergraduate education is reserved for enrichment and preparation for continued learning (i.e. the undergrad who studies Humanities at Middlebury and before obtaining a professional education (MBA) at Wharton). In this context, liberal arts education is very worthwhile. However, if you are a C+ student from a family without means in Jonesboro, Arkansas, then perhaps the undergraduate experience is just not for you.
Work for someone else and learn from them. After you get your hours, quit and start your own business.
But they have to be a pipefitter to do that. That's why I said it is difficult to do on your own without the pipefitters unless you have the academic ability to do 4 years of tech college.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When you get busy and you need to reduce the demand, slowly increase your price as you build business. Most plumbers are not that business savvy or are risk adverse like the rest of American's. It's harder to own your own business with most 4 year degrees. I've learned early on that business owners and corporations don't like to share their profits. The solution is control your own destiny and be the owner.
