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Iv'e been a teacher for almost 10 years now. No counselor, in any of the schools I have worked in, have ever told kids that the degree alone is going to get you a job, do what you love, blah blah blah. Both of the ones at my current school make sure kids have realistic expectations on their proposed major vs job market. Additionally, they push them towards the best programs not necessarily their favorite school (too many college visits going on IMO, but that is another matter).
Hell, I would say 25% of my current students do college level summer internships before they even go to college.
If you didn't do some of your own research into your proposed field, at 18, 19, 20 years old before you graduated with said degree, that is ultimately YOUR fault.
Iv'e been a teacher for almost 10 years now. No counselor, in any of the schools I have worked in, have ever told kids that the degree alone is going to get you a job, do what you love, blah blah blah. Both of the ones at my current school make sure kids have realistic expectations on their proposed major vs job market. Additionally, they push them towards the best programs not necessarily their favorite school (too many college visits going on IMO, but that is another matter).
Hell, I would say 25% of my current students do college level summer internships before they even go to college.
If you didn't do some of your own research into your proposed field, at 18, 19, 20 years old before you graduated with said degree, that is ultimately YOUR fault.
You're forgetting that not all schools are the same and some of us were so tied up with the "importance of college" that we blindly followed what our schools told us to do without questioning it at all.
On that note, my high school was on probation when I attended. Their accreditation was always under the microscope, and I've learned that the school is being shut down in the next year or two.
Iv'e been a teacher for almost 10 years now. No counselor, in any of the schools I have worked in, have ever told kids that the degree alone is going to get you a job, do what you love, blah blah blah. Both of the ones at my current school make sure kids have realistic expectations on their proposed major vs job market. Additionally, they push them towards the best programs not necessarily their favorite school (too many college visits going on IMO, but that is another matter).
Hell, I would say 25% of my current students do college level summer internships before they even go to college.
If you didn't do some of your own research into your proposed field, at 18, 19, 20 years old before you graduated with said degree, that is ultimately YOUR fault.
thats great, I am happy, that would lead me to believe that more schools are going this route. The school I went to it was basically "got to go to college, go to college or you will fail at life", there was no talk about majoring in X vs Y, marketablilty , chances of finding a job, no talk about how the job market actually is, realstic expectations etc... Like I said in a post earlier, it has been quite sometime since i have set foot in a high school, if high school guidance counselors and college level advisors are being more upfront and realstic with students (instead of the rosy "major in what you love blah blah"), that is a good thing, I certainly hope that is the trend.
As for the 18,19,20 etc... I understand at 19 and 20. But at 18 i had really no idea what I wanted to do. I was torn between marine biology, weapon designer and video game,computer game designer, writer for Nickeldeon. Also at 18 I was brought up under the mindset of "Do what you love, the employer will be willing to train etc..."
At 18 I am fresh out of highschool, and I was suppose to know at that very moment what I wanted to do? hell at 18 i was excited just to get into college, the mind was not even on major choice, realstic expectations etc...Looking back now, knowing what I know now, being aware of the job market- yes I should have been focused at 18, I should have had a plan.
As an aside I know companies like UPS, reynolds and reynolds, enterprise, Bankers life etc... have managment programs that only care if you have a degree-does not have to be a specfic degree, you just have to be a college grad. If I was not back in school I would proably try one of those programs. Now I have no idea if these programs are "legit" but for those grads struggling to find work, they may be a possible solution.
Last edited by dazeddude8; 06-02-2013 at 08:23 AM..
Reason: et al
Plenty of kids don't k ow what major they want right away. The difference is if you are a good student at a quality school you can spend some time figuring it out.
You're forgetting that not all schools are the same and some of us were so tied up with the "importance of college" that we blindly followed what our schools told us to do without questioning it at all.
On that note, my high school was on probation when I attended. Their accreditation was always under the microscope, and I've learned that the school is being shut down in the next year or two.
If there were on probation shouldn't that have been a warning to take their advice with a grain of salt?
If there were on probation shouldn't that have been a warning to take their advice with a grain of salt?
The school didn't exactly tell us. We all assumed the mission statement revision, bolstered up school spirit and other "silly overhauls" were just normal high school things. I found out we were placed on probation after I was already in college when a few of my friends still there finally caught wind of what was going on. None of us really knew what it meant even then. My friend said the teachers told them nothing was really wrong with the school, they just had to do some things to "make the state happy" and that it was not a big deal.
thats great, I am happy, that would lead me to believe that more schools are going this route. The school I went to it was basically "got to go to college, go to college or you will fail at life", there was no talk about majoring in X vs Y, marketablilty , chances of finding a job, no talk about how the job market actually is, realstic expectations etc... Like I said in a post earlier, it has been quite sometime since i have set foot in a high school, if high school guidance counselors and college level advisors are being more upfront and realstic with students (instead of the rosy "major in what you love blah blah"), that is a good thing, I certainly hope that is the trend.
If it has been "quite some time" since you were in high school, than what they said was valid for that time period.
Quote:
As for the 18,19,20 etc... I understand at 19 and 20. But at 18 i had really no idea what I wanted to do. I was torn between marine biology, weapon designer and video game,computer game designer, writer for Nickeldeon. Also at 18 I was brought up under the mindset of "Do what you love, the employer will be willing to train etc..."
Ugh, marine bio...
Again, if you don't know what to do, go to community college until you figure it out. At some point people need to be responsible for their own choices. I really have to ask, if you had no idea between playing with dolphins or making video games, what did you spend high school doing?
Most kids try out electives like marine bio and computer design in high school to at least narrow down to a field if not a major.
Quote:
At 18 I am fresh out of highschool, and I was suppose to know at that very moment what I wanted to do? hell at 18 i was excited just to get into college, the mind was not even on major choice, realstic expectations etc...Looking back now, knowing what I know now, being aware of the job market- yes I should have been focused at 18, I should have had a plan.
Yes, I know many kids (including my own and many of my students) who knew well before 18 what they wanted to do AND took the initiative to find out what they needed to do to pursue it well before college. My own daughter knew at 15 that she was going to do something in marine sciences, so she read up, did some science fairs, got internships, and volunteered on research project well before she even went to college. Sure she is one end of the spectrum, but the internet has been around for quite sometime, you could have read up about your list of potential interests.
This is not specifically directed at you, but I see this on CD and RL all the time. When a grad cannot get a job they blame everyone in the world for not informing them instead of taking any personal responsibility. It might be that same unwillingness to take on personal responsibility is keeping them from getting jobs.
This many times this. I was basically told more or less :
You want to stay at minimum wage your whole life?-then you better go to college
You will end up at McDonalds the rest of your life unless you go to college
Study what you love, employer's will hire and train you for the entry level work
You will be a complete failure at life unless you go to college etc"...
Quoted for truth. Many Millenials and even Gen X were told this time and time again by teachers, principles, politicians, guidance couselors and colleges.
Quote:
You have to understand, the mindsight of when I was in school, it was basically-you will go nowhere in life, you will spend the rest of your life at Burgerking unless you go to college. Also aside from very specialzied areas of work, nursing, engineering, doctor etc... you would be able to find an entry level job because the job really is entry level and the employer is willing to train- obivously that is not really the case and that applies to most internships as well. I had no idea back then just how niche, how picky, how specialzed employers could be. I was still operating under the mindset that "Degree doesnt really matter because the employer is willing to train".I was thinking at the very least I would be able to land some low level office job and work my way up- I had no idea that even those low level office jobs are hard to come by. Think of it like bringing napolean tactics to modern warfare today. I am the guy bayonet raised charging into battle against the machine gun nest.
Did I make mistakes? Heck ya I did, I should have taken more internships, I should have networked more, I should have chosen a more marketable major. But again I was young, I was naive, I was falsely reassured that "everything will be ok, employer will be willing to train etc..."
Obviously I can't change the past and myself and i assume many underemployed and or unemployed grads are working towards something better (which often means grinding it out a job at taco bell and back in school) but it still ticks me off every now and then when thinking about the past.
That is the problem. I heard about a programming position looking at Windows 8 experience. Guess what, Windows 8 has only been on the market for not even a year at this point. (Pause and let that digest now ask yourself what is wrong with that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
Iv'e been a teacher for almost 10 years now. No counselor, in any of the schools I have worked in, have ever told kids that the degree alone is going to get you a job, do what you love, blah blah blah. Both of the ones at my current school make sure kids have realistic expectations on their proposed major vs job market. Additionally, they push them towards the best programs not necessarily their favorite school (too many college visits going on IMO, but that is another matter).
Hell, I would say 25% of my current students do college level summer internships before they even go to college.
If you didn't do some of your own research into your proposed field, at 18, 19, 20 years old before you graduated with said degree, that is ultimately YOUR fault.
You are doing things right. Not all schools do that. Most worry about standardized test grades so they can stay open, keep getting funding, ect. It is not easy to be a millennial in the current K-12 system. You need to go through standardized tests (typically two per year from freshman to junior years) and at the same time figure out your strengths, majors that align with them and majors that get jobs and schools that offer the program and their ratings. Sounds like a herculian task if you do not have educators that take interests into their students like you have. Most they are not like you and the students are just a number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
If it has been "quite some time" since you were in high school, than what they said was valid for that time period.
Ugh, marine bio...
Again, if you don't know what to do, go to community college until you figure it out. At some point people need to be responsible for their own choices. I really have to ask, if you had no idea between playing with dolphins or making video games, what did you spend high school doing?
Most kids try out electives like marine bio and computer design in high school to at least narrow down to a field if not a major.
Yes, I know many kids (including my own and many of my students) who knew well before 18 what they wanted to do AND took the initiative to find out what they needed to do to pursue it well before college. My own daughter knew at 15 that she was going to do something in marine sciences, so she read up, did some science fairs, got internships, and volunteered on research project well before she even went to college. Sure she is one end of the spectrum, but the internet has been around for quite sometime, you could have read up about your list of potential interests.
This is not specifically directed at you, but I see this on CD and RL all the time. When a grad cannot get a job they blame everyone in the world for not informing them instead of taking any personal responsibility. It might be that same unwillingness to take on personal responsibility is keeping them from getting jobs.
That is good for them. I am proud of people that knew. The fact is standardized test into a box has hurt education. How many schools can offer trades? Not many at all.
Most kids try out electives like marine bio and computer design in high school to at least narrow down to a field if not a major.
Some of us didn't get more than 1 elective during high school due to how they scheduled us.
Elementary School > Honors Middle School Track > AP High School Track, riddled with electives.
Elementary School > Middle School Track > Honors High School Track, some electives.
Elementary School > Remedial Middle School Track > High School Track, one or two electives tops.
Remedial Elementary School > Remedial Middle School Track > Remedial High School Track, you're lucky to graduate in 4 years.
The schedule put on your record in 6th grade determined your classes for the next 6 years. I argued with my counselor on a regular basis about the fairness of the system and managed to pull off a few things. Those were options I would not have had normally all because my middle school guidance counselor said "we don't have enough seats in the honors program, but I'll put you on the "above-average" track. It won't put you on the honors track for high school but you'll be learning the same material."
Getting into Honors English 10 required the approval from the department chair, my 9th grade English teacher and my guidance counselor. It wasn't "too much deviance from the normal track" so they approved it.
The next year, the guidance counselor let me skip Chemistry and take Physics. At the end of the year I tried to get into AP Physics because I had such a grade and great interest in the subject. My teacher, the Astronomy teacher, the guidance counselor and the community college planned to have me take Chemistry over the summer at the college and then take AP Physics in the fall at the high school. Unfortunately, my GC's boss said no.
I tried to get into a higher level math class my Junior year because I spent the last 2 years in Basic Algebra and Algebra I repeating what I already got A's on during the 7th grade. I went to the community college and placed into Calculus II. They contacted the high school admissions to verify if I could get math credit for taking Calculus II at the college. The school said "no, even though he knows enough math to take it the system requires him to take Geometry, Algebra II, Trigonometry and Calculus I before then. If he's taking Calculus I now he can take it cooperatively for elective." Instead, they placed me in Algebra II cooperatively with Geometry.
Just some food for thought. Some high school programs are grossly unfair.
Last edited by ForkInTheRoad; 06-02-2013 at 02:58 PM..
This many times this. I was basically told more or less :
You want to stay at minimum wage your whole life?-then you better go to college
You will end up at McDonalds the rest of your life unless you go to college
Study what you love, employer's will hire and train you for the entry level work
You will be a complete failure at life unless you go to college etc"...
You have to understand, the mindsight of when I was in school, it was basically-you will go nowhere in life, you will spend the rest of your life at Burgerking unless you go to college. Also aside from very specialzied areas of work, nursing, engineering, doctor etc... you would be able to find an entry level job because the job really is entry level and the employer is willing to train- obivously that is not really the case and that applies to most internships as well. I had no idea back then just how niche, how picky, how specialzed employers could be. I was still operating under the mindset that "Degree doesnt really matter because the employer is willing to train".I was thinking at the very least I would be able to land some low level office job and work my way up- I had no idea that even those low level office jobs are hard to come by. Think of it like bringing napolean tactics to modern warfare today. I am the guy bayonet raised charging into battle against the machine gun nest.
Did I make mistakes? Heck ya I did, I should have taken more internships, I should have networked more, I should have chosen a more marketable major. But again I was young, I was naive, I was falsely reassured that "everything will be ok, employer will be willing to train etc..."
Obviously I can't change the past and myself and i assume many underemployed and or unemployed grads are working towards something better (which often means grinding it out a job at taco bell and back in school) but it still ticks me off every now and then when thinking about the past.
if you don't mind me asking, what did you major in? I just don't like it when people are like, why did you major in that? and you should have done more research via the internet! Well statistics like we have now weren't available on the internet back then and my college doesn't really keep track of graduates so I was screwed.
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(Pause and let that digest now ask yourself what is wrong with that...
