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I always cringe when I hear someone going to a CC for pre-dental, pre-vet, pharma, and pre-med. The reality is the Universities have a perception that the CC classes are not the same caliber. Perception will become reality when you apply to the dental, vet, pharma, and med schools. Personally, I think the CC teaches biology, Chem, Calc, and others IDENTICAL to Yale. But that isn't the perception by those who select students to competitive programs.
Now if a CC student takes the standardized test and knocks it out of the park, then that test score alone will open up doors (40 on a MCAT or 24 on a DAT). But that's really rolling the dice to assume you are going to be in the top 3-5%.
Also, people who assume they can transfer to a competitive program (even business programs) will also be shocked. On paper you can because the classes transfer. But you have to get into the program/college 1st.
Here in MN, the UofMN has CSOM (business school) and CBS (biology). In 2013, it's dog-eat-dog (>30 ACT scores). If someone can transfer into one of these programs, it is a rare exception to the rule. When I talk with these students about their dreams, they state that they are GOING to be a dentist or going to a competitive college inside of a large university. It's just a matter of serving their time. Shame on the CC's for not aligning them on realistic expectations.
First thing they should know is if they plan to go to a 4 year college, research, in advance, which school you will transfer to and IF they accept CC credits.
Second, if you are an above average student or better, most likely going the CC route is going to cost you MORE in the long run.
Third, yes, the workload is going to be more in a 4 year college because they expect more and you are sitting in a room with better students all around. Even if you have the same amount of homework, the quality of that homework will be judged differently compared to your peers. If you are in a math class with a bunch of kids that are taking the class just because it's a "gen ed" vs a bunch of kids that want to become engineers...do you really thing the prof in the 4 year school is going to let much slide?
Community colleges have their place but they are not the money saver people make them out to be and they are not generally the best stepping stone for kids that really want to go to a 4 year college.
I'd agree. Why not skip Community College and there will be no transition to brook?
Most community colleges will want to see anybody they hire as a full time instructor present a class lesson as part of his/her hiring process. They want people who can teach, which makes a big difference.
Most community colleges do not go the large lecture route where there will be 200 or 300 nameless students in a class. Most classes at my CC are 35 students or less.
Many community colleges have articulation agreements with four year colleges to which they frequently send students which enable students who get minimum grades in specific courses to transfer those in for full credit from the four year school.
Disclaimer: I am not taking any kind of position here for or against CCs, I am just sharing my own experience as someone who spent time at a CC (too long, but that's another story) and then transferred to a four year state university. I am about to start my 3rd semester at the four year school this fall.
The above quoted text has mirrored my experience. My GPA at the CC was about a 3.8. I have taken two courses at the 4 year that I could have taken at the CC but did not and the only difference was the class size; 30 students vs 350. The CC instructors knew my name. The 4 year school professors wouldn't even have a glimmer of recognition if we passed in the hall. The huge lecture hall freshman and sophomore level courses at the 4 year school seem to rely heavily on the "read and regurgitate" method of teaching, using multiple guess scan tron tests and having little to no time to help a student who might be struggling, because there are SO many students to deal with. Classes at the CC that were on the same level tended to include more active classroom discussion and interactive teaching methods.
A lower level / remedial math course I took at the 4 year school was structured so that you attended lecture 2x a week and then a lab 3x a week (with a different instructor entirely) with absolutely no continuity between the two. It was a nightmare and I dropped it. My opinion from that experience, and having taken remedial math at both, is that the 4 year schools need to leave the remedial stuff to the CC's. The CC's do it better.
I have not noticed a significant difference in my grades at the 4 year school nor any real difference in difficulty or the level of work required, honestly. I have also taken some online classes at both and, so far, the online courses at the CC actually required more work, papers, required discussion board participation, etc. The online courses I've taken at the four year university were ridiculously easy -- four quizzes and a final, all online (timed and 50% essay) but no papers, no discussion board posts, no projects, none of that. So easy, in fact, that I signed up for three more online courses from that same professor for next semester. Yeah it is the slacker way but my major requires a minor and i am taking those courses for my minor, and honestly, just need to get the damned credits and graduate already.
I have received one C in a course at the 4 year university, completely my own fault. I should have dropped it when I realized the professor's lecture style was so absolutely mind-numbingly boring that at any given time, 80% of the class was "napping". I earned that C, totally my fault, because I skipped the class too often, but it was my experience at the CC that the teaching style is entirely different and I did not come across that sort of droning lecture style, ever, at the CC.
I hate to generalize but another thing I have noticed, and of course I know that there are exceptions, is that the professors at the university have egos the size of Texas. Oh sure, many are engaging and interesting but good grief, the self-importance is a bit much. The instructors (many who were also professors at other local four year schools) at the CC seemed much more down to earth and interested in engaging on a personal level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210
<snip> As a matter of fact, the housing costs at a university can sometimes be more expensive than renting an apartment.
I should clarify that I am a non-traditional student (42 with kids) so CC made sense for me for other reasons, but while I AM enjoying my time at the 4 year university, despite my comments above, the price difference has been the most obvious and drastic difference so far. $2000 at my CC, $9000 a year at my public university.
Housing costs at my school are more than getting an apartment and splitting the rent. Unless you choose the dorm option with no AC (which I cannot believe even exists in a Texas dorm situation! ).
First year students must reside on campus unless they can claim/prove financial hardship. Eating on campus is ridiculously pricey. Might as well go to the mall food court. As a commuter student (over an hour away each way) at my university this really was a hardship if I forgot to pack a lunch!
twinsforlynn. I'm in your camp. Even a top 10% student will be paying more $$'s. More at a 4 year state university and even more at a private 4 year. I suppose there are exceptions to the rule. But I am still searching for one. Every single friend of my DD and DS that went private got great scholorships and still paid well north of a state school. They were all in the top 10% of their class. I knew one that was female and a math major and she got a GREAT scholarship. She paid $13K a year after room and board for a great Private (St Ben's and the "retail" is over $40K). Most were paying around $22K-$30K on campus "all in".
No doubt there are exceptions to the rule. But I have never met one yet. Of course my statement has nothing to do with FAFSA.
And the U of MN is still 27K all in....
If your top 10% students were that good, the most they would be paying at St. Ben's is about $20K, and should be less with the scholarships available....our D had a net there of 15K but she wasn't top 10% but had a good enough GPA and test scores to get the highest automatic scholarship and also was offered several smaller ones. She has several friends going there and none of them are paying over 20K....with a retail value of 47K, heck of a bargain and STILL less than any state school...
Just curious, OP, as to your background regarding what you've written about.... Have you attended both a cc and a 4 year university or is part of your premise what you've been told by others?
im headed back to finish my degree in my late 20s. when i was 18, noone offered me entrance to school, other than a full ride to liberty university. i refused to attend on moral grounds. The older me now would've said "hell no, even if you disagree on the principals of the founder, just go and get educated and a degree".
i did poorly in my 18-20 range. i stopped attending for several years to work, but i realized i disliked the demand and hours of retail so i went back. My gpa was under a 1.0 when i returned and by the grace of strong will, i somehow managed to get my gpa up to a 3.167 (at 190 attempted credits, i hit the maximum i could get my gpa up even if i took another semester and got all A's).
ill be attending university of pittsburgh this fall and i have made myself expect a higher demand of concentration for my courseload. I'll be taking some freshmen and sophmore courses, but for my majort most of them will be at the junior and senior level (i need 14 classes to finish my degree).
I always cringe when I hear someone going to a CC for pre-dental, pre-vet, pharma, and pre-med. The reality is the Universities have a perception that the CC classes are not the same caliber. Perception will become reality when you apply to the dental, vet, pharma, and med schools. Personally, I think the CC teaches biology, Chem, Calc, and others IDENTICAL to Yale. But that isn't the perception by those who select students to competitive programs.
Now if a CC student takes the standardized test and knocks it out of the park, then that test score alone will open up doors (40 on a MCAT or 24 on a DAT). But that's really rolling the dice to assume you are going to be in the top 3-5%.
Also, people who assume they can transfer to a competitive program (even business programs) will also be shocked. On paper you can because the classes transfer. But you have to get into the program/college 1st.
Here in MN, the UofMN has CSOM (business school) and CBS (biology). In 2013, it's dog-eat-dog (>30 ACT scores). If someone can transfer into one of these programs, it is a rare exception to the rule. When I talk with these students about their dreams, they state that they are GOING to be a dentist or going to a competitive college inside of a large university. It's just a matter of serving their time. Shame on the CC's for not aligning them on realistic expectations.
spot on, on your first paragraph. the reason im not sticking to a local va university is because this past spring they deemed essentially my entire courses for my major not adequete enough to transfer equally. that right there is another semester and a half of my intro courses i would need to retake, making me takee 3 years to finish and more money for it. I looked at out of state rates for pitt vs in state at GMU and i said "ill go with the one i feel gives me the best opportunity" and in my case pittsburgh was it.
i had a good professor tell me id be a fool to pick george mason over pittsburgh for my field in IT.
Had you looked around, you could have gotten all 4 years paid for....if you had done well in high school, which is sounds like you did not....big difference there if the money isn't available right out of high school--again, for above average students...that being a B+ student or better, or even a B student with good test scores. The numbers are all there in black and white on every college website...run the numbers and see for yourself....add in some financial aid if you qualify and it's pretty easy to find schools where the next cost is under $6k/year.
This is why I don't understand it. There are scholarships for "B" students at the right places. No one pays sticker price.
At the same time, I'd caution people against thinking that they are Ivy League or "almost Ivy" material because they had an "A" high school average and did some volunteer work at a museum.
My SIL expected every east coat college to role out the red carpet for her penniless daughter because she was an "A" student with, best we can figure - somewhat above average SATs (had they been amazingly good she would have sent them to my wife - no I'm not kidding.
However, with a zero EFC and very good grades, she could have gotten a nice little package for herself - but not from Amherst, Vassar or Harvard. A small liberal arts college that wanted an over achieving NYer.
But I digress. The thing is, between Cornell and the local CC, lies a vast number of private liberal arts colleges that will give the penny less but worthy "A" or even "B" student can attend.
Plenty of them guarantee that your student will graduate in four years.
Baldwin Wallace in my area guarantees it, for example.
What I am trying to say is that no one who wants a college experience needs to settle for cc - or to let money be a barrier.
im headed back to finish my degree in my late 20s. when i was 18, noone offered me entrance to school, other than a full ride to liberty university. i refused to attend on moral grounds. The older me now would've said "hell no, even if you disagree on the principals of the founder, just go and get educated and a degree".
i did poorly in my 18-20 range. i stopped attending for several years to work, but i realized i disliked the demand and hours of retail so i went back. My gpa was under a 1.0 when i returned and by the grace of strong will, i somehow managed to get my gpa up to a 3.167 (at 190 attempted credits, i hit the maximum i could get my gpa up even if i took another semester and got all A's).
ill be attending university of pittsburgh this fall and i have made myself expect a higher demand of concentration for my courseload. I'll be taking some freshmen and sophmore courses, but for my majort most of them will be at the junior and senior level (i need 14 classes to finish my degree).
Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate.
This is why I don't understand it. There are scholarships for "B" students at the right places. No one pays sticker price.
Maybe. But you also have to figure that a CC student will be living at home for two years of CC and the last two years lets say that they transfer into the flagship, which is almost always doable whether it's University of South Dakota or UNC-Chapel Hill. Personally, I know many students who got into the flagship from HS, but they couldn't afford it.
Now, if a small private school somewhere wants to offer enough scholarship $ to offset tuition, housing and food, so that it's less than 2 years CC + 2 years @ flagship + living with Mom, then if that private school is a good one, then by all means take the offer.
I just don't see that as realistic. How are these little private colleges going to survive if they let everybody who has a B average in high school attend for the same cost of community college?
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