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I don't think a smart kid should live like a pauper, work like a dog, and not have the modern conveniences to be able to go to college and then pay the loans. Some people think that is noble, but we are not in the 19th century anymore.
I believe college should be free. How come education is free from grades 1-12? Why not add an extra 4 years? I am not saying get rid of private schools, but state schools should be free to those that are smart enough to be accepted. At least it should be like Europe where most colleges have very affordable tuition.
Colleges are a business and loans are easy to obtain because the colleges benefit from this. My daughter goes to school in Boston the biggest college town in the world. The average tuition is 50k a year. When will this end?
Exactly this. There is nothing keeping college tuitions in check. With so many students willing and able to take out loans, and the government subsidizing many of those, there is FAR less incentive to schools to charge reasonable amounts. School tuition has risen faster than pretty much anything else in this country. Private schools will continue to raise their tuitions as long as people can keep getting the loans to cover them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton
There are plenty of reasonably priced universities out there.
You go 200K in debt because you want to go 200K in debt.
I don't understand why people have such a hard time grasping that.
I agree to an extent. My sister went to one of the expensive private universities. I went to a state school. (I should note, my parents were and still are VERY frugal, so they had money set aside for both of us to go to whatever school we chose, regardless of tuition. But that isn't the point so I digress.) We both ended up with the same major. My sister had professors who taught hundreds of students at a time, had little time for individual attention for a student if needed, some had thick accents making lectures difficult to understand, and were I'm certain hired for their research abilities rather than their ability to teach. My professors taught classes with dozens of students at most, most very good teachers, and went out of their way to help any students who needed their help and sought it out.
I hadn't thought of this before, but typing this out gave me a thought. Perhaps the "better" private research oriented schools accept those with the best grades and most extracurriculars because many of those students can teach themselves, so their professors being less than effective is OK.
On the other hand, there are schools that have specialized programs as far as majors that other schools may not have. Though this I am sure is the exception to the rule, it can factor into people selecting a school that is more pricey than they may prefer.
But as far as 17 and 18 years olds *wanting* to be 200k in debt, most kids this age genuinely do not have ANY realistic concept of how much 200k is, how much they will make when they get out of school, or any of that. They really do not know better, developmentally they aren't typically set up to mae the best long term decisions.
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Originally Posted by WyoEagle
This is exactly the point. There are plenty of reasonably priced good universities out there. This does not mean go to a degree mill or some unaccredited university. I would think most states would have at least one accredited state university that, while expensive (cheap college is a fallacy), are still more reasonably priced than Ivy League schools. I agree with the statement about the $200k debt. You do that because you wanted to and you chose to. Unless you're doing something like medical school or law school there is no reason anyone with a four year bachelor's degree should ever have that kind of debt. This really isn't that complicated.
I just wanted to point out that it's not typically the Ivy League schools that cost the most. For example, the University of Rochester costs nearly $10k more per year than Harvard costs. University of Harford only costs a couple thousand less per year than Harvard. The highest Ivy League tuition in 2012 was $43k, but the average was just under $40k. In 2011 the average cost for private 4 universities was only $5k per year less than the Ivy League average, and I'm not good at statistical analysis on the fly but I'd wager that can't be too far off from one standard deviation from average so they aren't the universities responsible for bumping up the average. The worst offenders include NYU, RPI, Wesleyan, and Dartmouth all of which are over $60k/year.
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That depends on where you are making that $50,000, whether you have a spouse and/or kids, and any other debt. Many people are able to pay off student loans within 2-3 years making $80k in an area with low cost of living
and by themselves. Not that easy if you have 2 kids and live in San Francisco.
That depends on where you are making that $50,000, whether you have a spouse and/or kids, and any other debt. Many people are able to pay off student loans within 2-3 years making $80k in an area with low cost of living
and by themselves. Not that easy if you have 2 kids and live in San Francisco.
It does seem quite irresponsible to have children in a high col area if you cannot afford it. Perhaps that's their problem.
I just wanted to point out that it's not typically the Ivy League schools that cost the most. For example, the University of Rochester costs nearly $10k more per year than Harvard costs. University of Harford only costs a couple thousand less per year than Harvard. The highest Ivy League tuition in 2012 was $43k, but the average was just under $40k. In 2011 the average cost for private 4 universities was only $5k per year less than the Ivy League average, and I'm not good at statistical analysis on the fly but I'd wager that can't be too far off from one standard deviation from average so they aren't the universities responsible for bumping up the average. The worst offenders include NYU, RPI, Wesleyan, and Dartmouth all of which are over $60k/year.
So it is. Good catch. Interesting though since one of my sources listed the tuition there in 2012 at $41k yet another source lists the 2013 tuition at $60k, clearly the tuition didn't jump that much in 1 year so I wonder which of my sources is correct, or if one only includes tuition and the other includes room and board as well.
Going purely by the numbers, it dose not look like there is an "excessive" amount of student debt at all. With an average debt of 53K and an average income of around 50K it would stand to reason that most debt is paid off well before the age of thirty. What am I missing ?
Or you could have the $53,000 in debt and the only job that you can get pays $10 an hour so you get a second part-time job which pays minimum wage so you can just barely afford to buy food & pay your rent. Doesn't leave a lot left over to pay more than the interest due on your student loans.
My daughter graduated two years ago, from a major state University and not even one of the fellow graduates that she knows makes $50,000 a year. She knows two people, who after a year of job hunting, now make $40,000 a year and she knows a few more people who make $25,000 to $30,000 a year, also after months or years of making $10 an hour.
I'm not sure where you found the figure of "an average income of 50K" for recent graduates it certainly isn't true in my daughter's large Midwestern metropolis (at least among all the people that my daughter knows).
I remember reading an article regarding a college calculating the average salary of recent graduates. First, they eliminated the people who were not working at all (it was supposed to be for groups such as new mothers or people in the hospital, but actually included all graduates who were totally unemployed or who were embarrassed by their underemployment so didn't list that job). Right away that greatly skewed the average salary considerably higher than in actuality.
Then they eliminated everyone who did not have jobs in the field that they graduated in, further skewing the average salary. I don't remember the exact details but it was something like out of 100 graduates they only used 25 in their final calculations (but, of course didn't say that in the advertising).
I wonder if the "$50,000 average salary" of new graduates came from that type of calculation?
Last edited by germaine2626; 08-14-2013 at 10:44 PM..
No one is being scammed.
People willingly take out those loans, and they know the terms when they do so.
And yet cannot file bankruptcy, have no statue of limitations, predatory lending practices, and growing default rates....sounds a bit different from other unsecured debts.
That depends on where you are making that $50,000, whether you have a spouse and/or kids, and any other debt. Many people are able to pay off student loans within 2-3 years making $80k in an area with low cost of living
and by themselves. Not that easy if you have 2 kids and live in San Francisco.
Have you ever met anyone who has paid off all of their student loans "within 2-3 years"?
Could it be 1% of the graduates? Or maybe 2% of the graduates? Or maybe the graduates where the very wealthy parents/grandparents paid almost all of their expenses in college so they had very, very minimal loans.
I wonder how many recent college graduates actually make $80,000 in a low cost of living area? Perhaps, that is also 1% ?
I'm 61 years old so the children of most of my friends are recent college graduates or graduated within the last ten to fifteen years. I can't think of any of them who paid off their students loans in less than ten years. Maybe we just run in different circles.
Last edited by germaine2626; 08-14-2013 at 10:37 PM..
Many kids that graduate from college have loans that they cannot pay
"Can not" or "will not"?
iPhone? Check.
5 gig data plan? Check.
Fancy rims on the car? Check.
300 cable channels? Check.
$45 weekly Starbucks bill? Check.
More than five pairs of shoes? Check.
Ski Vacation? Check.
College loans paid off? Maybe.Maxing out 401(k)? Probably not.
Fully funding Roth IRA? Are you kidding?
Six month emergency expenses? What?
Interesting and they may have used a credit card to pay for all that and yet no one has to "take responsibility" with credit cards.
There are plenty of reasonably priced universities out there.
You go 200K in debt because you want to go 200K in debt.
I don't understand why people have such a hard time grasping that.
I'm sure it has nothing to with lack of finding a job/paying and growing interest and late fees.
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