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You keep pointing the finger at students and student loan debt and saying they made bad decisions yet you don't point the finger at other borrowers making bad decisions with other types of debt.
That might be because this thread is titled " Many kids that graduate from college have loans that they cannot pay".
I don't think you really read that article. It stated that, as a result of delaying purchases of homes and making investments because of money dedicated to paying off debt, the lifetime toll in personal assets was $200,000. That is nowhere like writing $200,000 in checks to the bank.
As a case in point, a person paying off that average student loan debt of $27,500 at 4.5% over 20 years will wind up paying out a total of $41,754, or $173 a month. This is not an unreasonable burden.
That means that a $200,000 debt upon graduation is utterly off the charts. If the person who has accumulated that kind of debt has not earned a seriously high-powered engineering degree, then he was an idiot for blowing through that kind of money and amassing such a crippling amount of debt.
This. The loan terms, fees, and rates are on the papers that the person signed.
We get rid of loaning people money that can't pay back and we make people pay their debts. Knowledge can't be taken back, it's not a returnable good. I'm not for bankruptcy, bailouts, or welching period. But how can I feel sorry for someone who borrowed 50k on a arts degree.
Noooo you are just not for fair practices within student loans because you had to pay them back so should everyone else. I don't hear you talking about taking away credit card bankruptcy protections or complaining about the mortgage bailouts.
Noooo you are just not for fair practices within student loans because you had to pay them back so should everyone else. I don't hear you talking about taking away credit card bankruptcy protections or complaining about the mortgage bailouts.
That's because this is about student loans, you know this is a education sub forum correct? I'm not for bailouts or wiping debts on anything that involves stupid choices including houses, cars, gambling, and student loans. My only exception would be medical bills because that's not due to bad choices or living above ones means. You talk about unfair practices which points the blame at the banks and educational institutions but what about self blame on the student for not reading what they were signing or not caring?
You have to understand all of my degrees were obtained while working full time and raising a family, not living in a dorm and enjoying the overpriced so called college lifestyle. BTW my last degree was just completed within the last year so I'm well aware of the cost of current tuition but I was also smart enough to compare prices and attended the lowest cost regional accredited university in my state. In fact if it hadn't been for employer assistance I wouldn't have completed the last degree because I wouldn't have went up to my eyeballs in debt. It's all about choices not unfair loans.
That's because this is about student loans, you know this is a education sub forum correct? I'm not for bailouts or wiping debts on anything that involves stupid choices including houses, cars, gambling, and student loans. My only exception would be medical bills because that's not due to bad choices or living above ones means. You talk about unfair practices which points the blame at the banks and educational institutions but what about self blame on the student for not reading what they were signing or not caring?
You have to understand all of my degrees were obtained while working full time and raising a family, not living in a dorm and enjoying the overpriced so called college lifestyle. BTW my last degree was just completed within the last year so I'm well aware of the cost of current tuition but I was also smart enough to compare prices and attended the lowest cost regional accredited university in my state. In fact if it hadn't been for employer assistance I wouldn't have completed the last degree because I wouldn't have went up to my eyeballs in debt. It's all about choices not unfair loans.
It's nice that you were able to go to school without much debt. Do you really think that everyone who goes to school is in your situation? You sound like you assume that everyone has the means and ability to go to school with very little debt AND get employer reimbursement.
You mentioned understanding if someone gets sick and has large hospital bills and so forth.
What happens if a college student gets sick?
What if they cannot work and/or struggle to finish a degree while in college and wind up needing to take time off school... Or longer to graduate?
What if someone graduates, then falls ill?
You ok with the government garnishing what little money they may have?
I think most people have this image of college students who partied for 4-5 years and spent their loans on pot and hookers.
Seriously?
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It's nice that you were able to go to school without much debt. Do you really think that everyone who goes to school is in your situation? You sound like you assume that everyone has the means and ability to go to school with very little debt AND get employer reimbursement.
You mentioned understanding if someone gets sick and has large hospital bills and so forth.
What happens if a college student gets sick?
What if they cannot work and/or struggle to finish a degree while in college and wind up needing to take time off school... Or longer to graduate?
What if someone graduates, then falls ill?
You ok with the government garnishing what little money they may have?
I think most people have this image of college students who partied for 4-5 years and spent their loans on pot and hookers.
Seriously?
I went back to school at the age of 25 which was just a few years ago and it did not break me or put me with debilitating debt because I worked full time and while I was going and I also attended a community college for my first degree (first degree took me 7 years). My first degree was not paid for by an employer and at the time i worked in a crappy non climate controlled factory 40+ hours a week while others was spending their time in a dorm racking up debt. A choice everyone else has. Where is the self acceptance of I screwed up I did this to myself and I will pay the money I borrowed.
As for illness, I'm sure there are some cases of this but not many. Have you even read the thousands of post on occupystudentdebt.com? Many owe 30-80k on of arts degrees .
As for garnishing wages, yes when a individual borrows money and sign agreement stating they will pay the money back then they have a responsibility to pay that money back.
My wife is now going to college at the age of 32 and guess what, she is going to a community college and working full time also and will have NO DEBT. Life is about choices.
I went back to school at the age of 25 which was just a few years ago and it did not break me or put me with debilitating debt because I worked full time and while I was going and I also attended a community college for my first degree (first degree took me 7 years). My first degree was not paid for by an employer and at the time i worked in a crappy non climate controlled factory 40+ hours a week while others was spending their time in a dorm racking up debt. A choice everyone else has. Where is the self acceptance of I screwed up I did this to myself and I will pay the money I borrowed.
As for illness, I'm sure there are some cases of this but not many. Have you even read the thousands of post on occupystudentdebt.com? Many owe 30-80k on of arts degrees .
As for garnishing wages, yes when a individual borrows money and sign agreement stating they will pay the money back then they have a responsibility to pay that money back.
My wife is now going to college at the age of 32 and guess what, she is going to a community college and working full time also and will have NO DEBT. Life is about choices.
I suppose it is, but as a single mother who went to school, worked, took care of a toddler by myself (paid daycare!) and had no choice but to either NOT go to school or take a job that wouldn't support my family... I took out student loans. I guess I was living the high life, man.
I am fortunate enough to have remained gainfully and lucratively employed and not to have lost a job due to the recession. I am also fortunate at this time to be married (though we have a larger family now) to a spouse who also has a good job with a higher-than average wage.
I have to assume, however, that there were plenty of people in the same or similar situation that I was in as an undergraduate (I was 23 when I started school full-time) and if I wasn't lounging around a dorm room without a care in the world, I figure they weren't either.
My first job out of college was teaching. It paid so little, I would have qualified for public assistance. Paying back student loans on it? Forget it. Even in a two-income household, this would not be feasible unless the 2nd income was quite high... not with daycare expenses for young kids. Yanno what? I went BACK to school and got a Master's (and my employer covered most of that, thank goodness ... the employer I obtained merely BY being in a Master's program in my field). Still? I have far more student loan debt than I'd like... interest adds up when you are in school over many years due to underemployment.
So... in short? I think you're painting everyone who has student debt with the same brush. If I had never gone back to school (which put me further into debt, but paid off with a good job), then I suppose I'd be one of those people with loans I could never afford to pay back. It's funny... and ton of what I owe is accrued interest. It's not even the damned principle. This is where student loans take advantage of people who are young and financially inexperienced. Or just desperate to go to school to make a decent living, provide for a young family, etc.
So, pat yourself on the back for being so awesome, man.
I guess everyone who didn't do it like you did are just slackers.
I'm gonna hop on over to the Real Estate forum now and accuse everyone who lost their house during the crash of being a useless bum because I managed to pay for mine. How's that?
ETA: I don't agree with much of what the Occupy movement SEEM to be trying to do. I think that people are obliged to pay back their debts, if at all humanly possible. I just know that there are times when this is not possible. It seems cruel to blame the 18-20something kids who took out more loans than they can now afford to major in the arts while completely ignoring the fact that the system preys on these students with promises of great jobs when they graduate (job placement assistance? Sure!)... if you think that colleges don't attempt to do this, you're mistaken. So, what to do? I think that instead of vilifying these people, it's better to reform student loans and give people some sort of relief. I think that taking a look at interest accruals would be huge. I know I would feel obliged to pay every penny of the principle borrowed on my loans PLUS a reasonable amount of interest. But, when 1/3 of what you owe iS interest? Nope. Not reasonable. Imagine that each of these people who owe 40-80k on an art degree really only took out 25-55k on these art degrees? Not quite so crazy now, is it? 25k, even with an art degree plus a small, fixed amount of interest isn't crazy at all... and there are ways to lower that payment through IBR or other means to make this really affordable to all but the unemployed.
Fix the problem, don't just demand that people live in abject poverty for the rest of their lives because they weren't financial wizards when they attended college. You said it yourself... they got ART degrees. Perhaps they are not financially inclined?
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I don't agree with much of what the Occupy movement SEEM to be trying to do. I think that people are obliged to pay back their debts, if at all humanly possible.
Great post, it seems we both agree on the overall aspect of paying it back even though we don't agree on who's really the blame . The whole occupy thing reminds me of of the Woodstock hippie crowd only this time instead of peace they are wanting their obligated debt wiped. Yes there is a problem with post secondary education but the problem isn't just cost or financing, there is also a problem of educational programs that don't offer anything in regards to jobs and aren't even needed and there is a problem of students attending that shouldn't be. +
I'm already telling my two young children that associate degrees through community colleges in the right fields are more valuable than bachelors and masters in the wrong fields. I would be more than happy if they went into nursing, physical therapy assistant, or radiology programs and be debt free. I have two degrees in information technology and one degree in psychology, the psychology degree was done just for enjoyment where the IT degrees feed me and my family. Even though the economy sucks badly there are majors that offer far more employment opportunities than other majors and within 5 minutes on the internet an individual could see which majors are worth going to college. I just for the life of me can't understand why some go in debts thousands for degrees that have no job market.
Great post, it seems we both agree on the overall aspect of paying it back even though we don't agree on who's really the blame . The whole occupy thing reminds me of of the Woodstock hippie crowd only this time instead of peace they are wanting their obligated debt wiped. Yes there is a problem with post secondary education but the problem isn't just cost or financing, there is also a problem of educational programs that don't offer anything in regards to jobs and aren't even needed and there is a problem of students attending that shouldn't be. +
I'm already telling my two young children that associate degrees through community colleges in the right fields are more valuable than bachelors and masters in the wrong fields. I would be more than happy if they went into nursing, physical therapy assistant, or radiology programs and be debt free. I have two degrees in information technology and one degree in psychology, the psychology degree was done just for enjoyment where the IT degrees feed me and my family. Even though the economy sucks badly there are majors that offer far more employment opportunities than other majors and within 5 minutes on the internet an individual could see which majors are worth going to college. I just for the life of me can't understand why some go in debts thousands for degrees that have no job market.
I think there's plenty of blame to go around for schools AND students. I also think this is an area that needs reform. I just don't think it'll happen because our own government is counting on making a fortune off students and they're unwilling to deal.
I've scared mine off student loan debt. My eldest owes a little less than 3k now and he's paying it back while he's in school. I'm both an example and a cautionary tale. Which works.
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Great post, it seems we both agree on the overall aspect of paying it back even though we don't agree on who's really the blame . The whole occupy thing reminds me of of the Woodstock hippie crowd only this time instead of peace they are wanting their obligated debt wiped. Yes there is a problem with post secondary education but the problem isn't just cost or financing, there is also a problem of educational programs that don't offer anything in regards to jobs and aren't even needed and there is a problem of students attending that shouldn't be. +
I'm already telling my two young children that associate degrees through community colleges in the right fields are more valuable than bachelors and masters in the wrong fields. I would be more than happy if they went into nursing, physical therapy assistant, or radiology programs and be debt free. I have two degrees in information technology and one degree in psychology, the psychology degree was done just for enjoyment where the IT degrees feed me and my family. Even though the economy sucks badly there are majors that offer far more employment opportunities than other majors and within 5 minutes on the internet an individual could see which majors are worth going to college. I just for the life of me can't understand why some go in debts thousands for degrees that have no job market.
The second comment you made in this post is the best comment I have seen from you. Associates/trade skills are in need and actually train students in skills they need on the job and prepare them. Plus they often have companies scouting for them, vs. the free-for-all it seems for every non STEM major out there.
I also agree that I thought Occupy were whiners but then I had to walk in their shoes. I ended up in a similar spot to them, an unemployed (luckily now underemployed) college graduates. The issue is that we went from having an easy entry level training job to having to settle for unpaid internships as college GRADUATES. While in college that is one thing because you are getting credit, as graduates you only get experience. Isn't that against the law?
I must say that the brush you write off those who take the loans is wrong. Many millennials were told that we needed college. Whether it was a specific major (like it is in 2008/10 until now) or any major (like pre 2008/10.) So we had several thousands (perhaps millions) of graduates who maybe before wouldn't have gotten degrees because they didn't "need to" but now we "need" it. I am not even talking about the whole degree + experience "entry level" job phenomenon. I am just talking about the fact you have society believing college is the be all end all for landing into the middle class.
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