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It also seems the op doesn't understand all the functions of a college or university. Particularly when it comes to moving up in certain professional fields and/or going to grad school, letters of recommendation from faculty are important. Education is not JUST about learning subject matters. Its learning how to work and interact with others,
Its amazing how inefficient college and schools are these days. Think about it. You show up to class, listen to a lecture, and leave. Then another group of students come in and repeat. Then next semester, year, etc it happens over and over again using the same material. Its so inefficient. It would make more sense to just give the lecture, record it, and distribute it once. There is no added value in doing it over and over again. It is the equivalent of Brian Williams going to each persons house in America to give them the news, instead of using TV to give it to everyone at once. This is why the cost of education keeps rising. No innovation and close mindedness.
Now I know what some of you are going to say. Well if your not in class, you can't ask your professor questions etc. Well that is BS, because even in large lectures, I only saw a few people at the most asking the professor questions. And they use TA's for a lot of things. You could just as easily still ask your teach questions via e-mail, or phone, or through an expanded TA and tutoring program.
There's lots of things in life that could be truncated to the bare necessities.
We could probably eat some wafered, flavorless disc the size of a cookie for all of our needed calories and nutrients per day. That wouldn't be very fun though.
We could eliminate thousands to millions of jobs of people that provide services 'we don't need'. Who really needs to put on makeup and nail polish. We could get rid of the whole cosmetics industry. The point is, going to college and interacting with other students and a professor is a life experience.
I don't think the way it's delivered is moronic I just think that the model is outdated. Education needs a post-industrial delivery model that combines lecture and practice. The aspect of general education classes is also a bit outdated as the original goal of education was to produce a student that was "well-rounded" in all areas. However that isn't really applicable to today because everyone is required to attend school between the ages of 6-16 so much of that information is taught in the K-12 system on a smaller scale.
I think the mistake that colleges and universities make is sticking to a traditional model and relying on students to generate income by raising tuition yearly but not delivering a better product that justifies the price. Universities should become partners in various local businesses/institutes and/or own their own non-profit businesses/institutes that give students an opportunity to immediately apply the information that they learn. Universities and colleges are short sighted in terms of where their opportunities reside in terms of where they could generate income and research opportunities. Instead, leaders often solely focus on tuition raises and program growth. Those two factors make it impossible to change the model because it becomes about delivering as much information to as many people as possible simultaneously and hence, the lecture hall.
I don't think the way it's delivered is moronic I just think that the model is outdated. Education needs a post-industrial delivery model that combines lecture and practice. The aspect of general education classes is also a bit outdated as the original goal of education was to produce a student that was "well-rounded" in all areas. However that isn't really applicable to today because everyone is required to attend school between the ages of 6-16 so much of that information is taught in the K-12 system on a smaller scale.
I think the mistake that colleges and universities make is sticking to a traditional model and relying on students to generate income by raising tuition yearly but not delivering a better product that justifies the price. Universities should become partners in various local businesses/institutes and/or own their own non-profit businesses/institutes that give students an opportunity to immediately apply the information that they learn. Universities and colleges are short sighted in terms of where their opportunities reside in terms of where they could generate income and research opportunities. Instead, leaders often solely focus on tuition raises and program growth. Those two factors make it impossible to change the model because it becomes about delivering as much information to as many people as possible simultaneously and hence, the lecture hall.
Ummm, many classes already have those. They are called lecture/lab or lecture/required lab classes depending upon whether or not the lab is an integral part of the course or is a class a student registers for separately. While these are found mostly in the sciences, they are also found in some other disciplines as well. Some programs also include "practicums" of some type, including occupational therapy, nursing, and teaching. Many colleges and universities require students to complete an internship or co-op experience in order to graduate. Finally, many community colleges offer "hands on" training in specific skills in various trades like welding or HVAC.
Ummm, many classes already have those. They are called lecture/lab or lecture/required lab classes depending upon whether or not the lab is an integral part of the course or is a class a student registers for separately. While these are found mostly in the sciences, they are also found in some other disciplines as well. Some programs also include "practicums" of some type, including occupational therapy, nursing, and teaching. Many colleges and universities require students to complete an internship or co-op experience in order to graduate. Finally, many community colleges offer "hands on" training in specific skills in various trades like welding or HVAC.
Do you honestly believe that 15 weeks in an inter/externship or a lab environment students are actually working with real world concepts to the depth that they are expected to in a full-time position? In my 20 years of teaching college students I have yet to see a lab or internship that comprehensively measures knowledge acquired in an academic program. Internships are designed to expose students to the work environment but rarely are interns given tasks beyond the menial level that actually allows them to fully apply and test their knowledge. There's a huge difference between an employers expectation of someone who is on the payroll and someone who is not. Labs simply reinforce what's in lecture to test a student's knowledge as to whether they can apply what they've retained in a controlled environment. This is hardly a simulation of the real-world.
I agree that two year technical programs are exactly the way that eduction should go because these programs are designed to immediately help students learn and apply in real world settings. However a psychology student, business student, healthcare management student or any student enrolled in a non-technical program will not have this opportunity.
OP has a valid point about lectures, and ultimately they should be designed to generate critical, analytical and reflective thought around the core issues taught in the class. That rarely happens in a large lecture hall and in classes where a group of students have a wide range of diversity in terms of academic ability.
So tell me what changes from year to year in a calculus or history class. Is 1 +1 still 2?
In Calculus, there is plenty of disagreement about whether a proof first or operations first approach is best. If you go proof first, do you start from the 7 basic postulates, 11 basic postulates, or from a different set of fundamental theorems. From an operations first, at what point do you introduce partials, integrals, when do you introduce theorems and proofs?
How much do you focus on delta-epsilon proofs? The three hard theorems? Analysis?
Someone who knows history more would have to comment on that, but I at least know there is not lots of consensus in history. Even the basic question of the ratio of primary to secondary documents is a pretty fundamental teaching question that has no resolution.
Universities should become partners in various local businesses/institutes and/or own their own non-profit businesses/institutes that give students an opportunity to immediately apply the information that they learn. Universities and colleges are short sighted in terms of where their opportunities reside in terms of where they could generate income and research opportunities. Instead, leaders often solely focus on tuition raises and program growth.
Pretty much all universities and the larger colleges do that already.
Tuition is a small chunk of the pie compared to the revenue from research and patents.
Its amazing how inefficient college and schools are these days. Think about it. You show up to class, listen to a lecture, and leave. Then another group of students come in and repeat. Then next semester, year, etc it happens over and over again using the same material. Its so inefficient. It would make more sense to just give the lecture, record it, and distribute it once. There is no added value in doing it over and over again. It is the equivalent of Brian Williams going to each persons house in America to give them the news, instead of using TV to give it to everyone at once. This is why the cost of education keeps rising. No innovation and close mindedness.
Now I know what some of you are going to say. Well if your not in class, you can't ask your professor questions etc. Well that is BS, because even in large lectures, I only saw a few people at the most asking the professor questions. And they use TA's for a lot of things. You could just as easily still ask your teach questions via e-mail, or phone, or through an expanded TA and tutoring program.
You are incorrect in a number of your presumptions. Not all classes are repeated semester after semester nor taught by the same professor. Reading material changes frequently as well. Both core reading and supplementary. Depending on the class, the reading is not identical to the lectures. There is insufficient time in three 50minute weekly sessions or two 75minute weekly sessions to provide the full scope of a subject. The readings are to support the lecture or vice versa. If we are discussing a problem solving class then lectures provide examples and the logic behind problem resolution so a student can solve the assigned homework problems in the text.
TAs have to read the same material and are intended to be energetic and able to assume most of the minor duties a professor has to do. I know I was one.
In my opinion the system works well but the human element can be hit or miss. I recall my outstanding professors and the lesser ones twenty years later. Even some of the lecture comments.
Depending on the course a good professor will engage the class with open discussion on topics. Some courses require in class team exercises.
Lectures are needed because both parties are present to ask questions, especially with problem solving, to address post-class work which needs to be completed by a deadline. Emailing after class is fine for long term projects but useless for short term ones that require completion with a few days. Classes are framed in the belief students are full time with heavy post-class work per week. You study when you have the time which means any questions have to be addressed while there is an active respondent availalble and not hope for an email response hours later or the next day.
There were cheating issues when I was a TA in the pre-mobile device days. It would be worse now with remote classes regarding quizzes.
Many more points but you were on a rant and the above is enough to work with.
Do you honestly believe that 15 weeks in an inter/externship or a lab environment students are actually working with real world concepts to the depth that they are expected to in a full-time position? In my 20 years of teaching college students I have yet to see a lab or internship that comprehensively measures knowledge acquired in an academic program. Internships are designed to expose students to the work environment but rarely are interns given tasks beyond the menial level that actually allows them to fully apply and test their knowledge. There's a huge difference between an employers expectation of someone who is on the payroll and someone who is not. Labs simply reinforce what's in lecture to test a student's knowledge as to whether they can apply what they've retained in a controlled environment. This is hardly a simulation of the real-world.
I agree that two year technical programs are exactly the way that eduction should go because these programs are designed to immediately help students learn and apply in real world settings. However a psychology student, business student, healthcare management student or any student enrolled in a non-technical program will not have this opportunity.
OP has a valid point about lectures, and ultimately they should be designed to generate critical, analytical and reflective thought around the core issues taught in the class. That rarely happens in a large lecture hall and in classes where a group of students have a wide range of diversity in terms of academic ability.
I have never had an internship that didn't meet the bolded parts.
Clearly you are not talking about STEM fields because what your wrote above about labs, and internships, has absolutely ZERO relevance in those fields.
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