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I think there's a difference between FT students who work PT and FT workers who go to school PT. The idea of working FT and going to grad school FT isn't reasonable imo, regardless of who pays for it. I wouldn't expect an employer to fund it aside from special cases. What I've seen is around 10k/yr for bigger companies and less for smaller co's. My co does fully fund a PhD, but as with any of the grad classes there must be a direct benefit to the company, which is completely reasonable imo. Would that be the case for tech's getting their PharmD's? I've heard of the likes of Walgreen's funding pharmd's in the past so as to secure a pharmacist worker. I don't know how common that is these days.
Yes, and I'm just guessing on that. An extended family member worked at a grocery chain pharmacy as a tech. This is a huge company with good bennies. I'll ask her when I see her on Christmas if she got any scholarship $ from them while in pharm school (if I can work it into the convo diplomatically). She did get a job as a pharmacist with that same chain, so maybe that was help enough!
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Originally Posted by Emigrations
Assuming you're in a traditional full time program and are not working...
You still have to pay for a vehicle, vehicle insurance, gas, vehicle maintenance. You still have to pay for a residence, food, clothing, and medical expenses. You still have to pay for whatever a regular person will, but on top of that, you cannot work (or work very much) due to daytime classes. If a program costs $40k and you spend two years getting the master's, and have to pay another $25k/year in living expenses (and that's living very cheaply), you're up to $90k in debt. This is just napkin math without me taking into account in scholarships, TAs, interest, or whatever other factors may come into play.
The long and short of it is that a traditional master's program can quickly balloon into a debt load far and above the sticker price and a much higher amount than most would have anticipated.
If the person had not gone to school, not only would they not be out the sticker price of the education itself, the living expenses would have been paid for with current wages, and not rolled into debt on the expectation of higher future wages.
I don't see the benefit of a master's (or even a four year degree in many cases) unless one or more of the following conditions are met.
1) You are changing fields and the master's is quicker and cheaper to obtain than a second bachelor's.
2) The degree is paid to a high extent by an employer, scholarships, or another private source that you are not obligated to repay. If someone else is paying, why not?
3) The master's is required for moving into a higher level position with your current employer and you have a near guarantee this will happen.
4) You can "pay as you go," without significant impacting to personal savings, retirement contributions, etc (unlikely)
5) Your current pay and career trajectory are so poor that the current path is unsustainable. You are retraining out of desperation (most likely). If you're making $25k, paying $50k for a master's, and come out making $50k, then in two years the program has paid for itself, and afterward the ROI is positive. Somebody making $100k before enrolling in a master's probably has less to gain than someone making $25k.
You have to pay to live, whether you are in school or not. My daughter had a career plan to get a Doctorate in Physical Therapy. That is the only way you can become a PT these days. You get an undergrad in biology or something similar, then go to PT school. There's not much you can do with a bio major, except work in a lab that pays $15/hr if that. Any money you made would go directly to living expenses and you wouldn't be saving any. It might take you 30 years to save up for PT school that way.
Well sure, you have to go where jobs are. I don't understand the mentality of people that don't do this. Do they want to fail? Are they afraid of succeeding?
It's not a rational choice, but not all decisions we make are based on reason. Maybe people want to be near their family or their hometown. Maybe they prefer the weather. It can be anything really.
This has been a lesson I've had to learn this year. I moved from TN to IA due to a lack of opportunity and made a lot more money in IA. I moved back to TN partly because the job itself sucked (call center) and I missed family, but have had a far worse year financially here in TN than I did in IA.
The first two years out of college I had an increase in pay, benefits, and responsibilities, and was FTE both places, and even though they weren't great jobs, at least it was stable. I've had three temp jobs this calendar year back in my hometown with each job paying less than the last. I've gotten burned and learned my lesson, but this whole year was essentially a washout learning this lesson. I'm just chalking it up to a blunder and moving on.
You have to pay to live, whether you are in school or not. My daughter had a career plan to get a Doctorate in Physical Therapy. That is the only way you can become a PT these days. You get an undergrad in biology or something similar, then go to PT school. There's not much you can do with a bio major, except work in a lab that pays $15/hr if that. Any money you made would go directly to living expenses and you wouldn't be saving any. It might take you 30 years to save up for PT school that way.
So you're saying people should drop out of work for a a couple of years, roll it all into debt, and then hope it comes out better on the other side?
I'd like to go and get an accounting master's, but I have to eat and pay my bills. This leaves me stuck where I'm at working for under $12/hr. If I made a regular wage, I could save some and afford to take off for a year to two, but I can't do this. I've had to realize that I have to get an increase in income before I can do anything. I suppose I could roll all my expenses into a student loan. Let's say I go back and get my MAcc and the public school tuition and living expenses total $40k, but it's highly likely I could graduate with no accounting job and still be stuck in low wage employment. At that point, I'd be much worse than before.
That's the problem with education, even with degrees that should be marketable and people who are otherwise capable of doing better.
Yes, and I'm just guessing on that. An extended family member worked at a grocery chain pharmacy as a tech. This is a huge company with good bennies. I'll ask her when I see her on Christmas if she got any scholarship $ from them while in pharm school (if I can work it into the convo diplomatically). She did get a job as a pharmacist with that same chain, so maybe that was help enough!
I looked at pharm school when I was an undergrad, and ways to pay for it, and that's when came across the chain pharm information about funding education. This was some time ago, though.
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You have to pay to live, whether you are in school or not. My daughter had a career plan to get a Doctorate in Physical Therapy. That is the only way you can become a PT these days. You get an undergrad in biology or something similar, then go to PT school. There's not much you can do with a bio major, except work in a lab that pays $15/hr if that. Any money you made would go directly to living expenses and you wouldn't be saving any. It might take you 30 years to save up for PT school that way.
I think this is where location comes into play. I work with quite a few BS holders who do very well. In my field it doesn't seem to matter what the degree is in as long as it's a science degree- life, physical, or clinical science. My boss has an MS in marine science. Another colleague was hired with just a BS, and recently finished her MS, in environmental science. Other folk in chem, med tech, etc. BS holders start in the 50-60s IIRC + bonus and benefits at my co, so it's not bad. My husband only has a BS in chem and supervises a diagnostics lab for a decent wage. He just finished his degree 2 and 1/2 years ago. There's no way he would have this outcome if we lived just about anywhere else.
^^My other daughter also has a bio degree. A lot of her friends from school worked at the U of CO health science center labs for ~$15/hr (if that much). According to her, these are not career jobs. She said a lot were going back to get nursing degrees.
So you're saying people should drop out of work for a a couple of years, roll it all into debt, and then hope it comes out better on the other side?
I'd like to go and get an accounting master's, but I have to eat and pay my bills. This leaves me stuck where I'm at working for under $12/hr. If I made a regular wage, I could save some and afford to take off for a year to two, but I can't do this. I've had to realize that I have to get an increase in income before I can do anything. I suppose I could roll all my expenses into a student loan. Let's say I go back and get my MAcc and the public school tuition and living expenses total $40k, but it's highly likely I could graduate with no accounting job and still be stuck in low wage employment. At that point, I'd be much worse than before.
That's the problem with education, even with degrees that should be marketable and people who are otherwise capable of doing better.
If you want to be a PT, that is what you have to do. You cannot do this program part time, and they discouraged the students from working. In reality, it would have been extremely difficult to work once the clinical rotations started, as they usually involved 40 hrs a week in and of themselves.
actual employment combined with supportive education helps mould and shape our career path and helps us do a better job of finding where our real strengths lie. you cant do that sitting in a desk in a class room.
Agreed! I've learned far more "on the job" than in a classroom. Everyone has a different learning style and strengths/weakness. My number one weakness is getting bored. i find myself excelling when I am put through the actual rigors of a job. I learned by being baptized in fire -- if you didn't pick things up quickly and were afraid to take risks, you're gone. Stressful yes, but very fulfilling to me.
If you want to be a PT, that is what you have to do. You cannot do this program part time, and they discouraged the students from working. In reality, it would have been extremely difficult to work once the clinical rotations started, as they usually involved 40 hrs a week in and of themselves.
This is an outdated way of thinking and colleges are going to have to reform to the times. There is no longer the "slack" in the economy to allow one to sit out for years in a training program. Today's economy is much more focused on subsistence and old models like this don't allow for that.
College degrees are the new high school diploma. And some even more useless than that as they have become so readily availably on the internet and through for profit intsitutions, etc. People think if they go 50k into debt to acquire a degree that they will "get ahead" in the workforce, in life, etc. I did enjoy my time in college, and I am glad I went but my reasons for enjoying my time at a top tier university have nothing to do with my job prospects. In order to "get ahead" in life you need to work for it, no corporation is going to hand you anything sitting in a cubicle. Especially with the baby boomers in hiring positions, trust me they will not retire quietly. I have met more millionaires who were college dropouts than any other people. I think people are naive and higher institutions are milking the new degree bubble that Gen Y has been lead to believe that they need in order to be successful.
I agree that a college degree is not the magic bullet for success it once was. However it is a requirement to get most decent jobs out there. What really will "get you ahead" is your work ethic. A college degree coupled with solid work experience and a high drive/work ethic will get you ahead. You cannot just rest on the laurels of your degree but it does help you.
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