Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Never mind...I see you're the one that posted about CU. I love the school and especially the location. Going there for a football game and watching my school win was exhilarating. Well worth the road trip.
Last edited by stradivarius; 03-09-2014 at 02:42 PM..
Reason: My original response was incorrect.
Never mind...I see you're the one that posted about CU. I love the school and especially the location. Going there for a football game and watching my school win was exhilarating. Well worth the road trip.
Check your reading comprehension. I never said that.
I would also not call Case a liberal arts institution. It may have officially dropped the "Institute of Technology" designation, but I don't know many people who go there to study philosophy and English.
So it's not on my list.
Case is a University. It's not a technical Institute, nor is is a Liberal Arts College. It's a research oriented University with a wide variety of majors much like the Ivy League Schools.
Still-your list is yours. You don't have to put any particular school on your list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulJourn
Neither is Penn State. No state schools, remember.
I made a separate list of Public Ivies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulJourn
And "Tier one research universities"? That was mentioned by a poster, however most significant research in the hard sciences seems to emerge from flagship state universities, not privates. So I'm not putting those on my list either.
All 8 of the Ivies are on the list of schools with very high research activity (Carnegie Classification). So I would think that a list of schools similar to the Ivies should include a substantial number of schools that turn out a high level of research. There are 34 private universities on the list of schools with very high research activities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulJourn
THIS would be my list -
1. Reed College-This is a liberal arts college. It not comparable to the Ivies which are Universities.
2. Colorado College-This is a liberal arts college. It not comparable to the Ivies which are Universities.
3. Oberlin College-This is a liberal arts college. It not comparable to the Ivies which are Universities.
4. University of Chicago-Agreed
5. St. Olaf's College-This is a liberal arts college. It not comparable to the Ivies which are Universities.
6. Washington University, St. Louis-Agreed
7. Stanford University-Agreed
8. Carleton CollegeThis is a liberal arts college. It not comparable to the Ivies which are Universities.
My comments in red above. Liberal Arts colleges can be great schools. I really wanted my son to go to one but he chose Case instead. I think they give students exceptional undergraduate experiences. I love that they are more focused on undergraduates than some universities. But they are not comparable to the Ivy League schools which are Universities.
I guess I copped out with my regional lists so I will put together my list:
Stanford
Cal Tech
Duke
Vanderbilt
Wash U
Chicago
Northwestern
USC
Last edited by Momma_bear; 03-09-2014 at 04:02 PM..
Reason: I only listed 7
To answer your question, yes. I guess you didn't read my earlier post about how Penn State gets their selective reputation. Remember the US News rankings are based on the main campus at University Park. Back in the 70s, the U Pk campus was getting so big that the state started building a lot of "commonwealth campuses" across the state. (My dad taught at one for a while, BTW.) In the beginning, these were two year colleges, but part of the Penn State system, NOT the Community College system. Anyway, the idea was to limit the students admitted to U Pk, and instead "encourage" (by non-admission to U Pk) students to go to their commonwealth campus for the first two years, then transfer to U Pk. Only the most stellar students get into U Pk as freshmen. So you can perhaps see how this skews ALL their stats. The ones who are going to drop out usually do so before transferring up to U Pk. The ones with the higher SAT scores get admitted to U Pk, the others go to their commonwealth campus for 1-2 years and then transfer. The % in the top 25% of their class is higher, b/c the others are at the commonwealth campuses. Some of these students transfer to U Pk and graduate from there, but there are no stats on the SAT scores, % in top 25% for graduates, just for admits.
Many of the commonwealth campuses have gone on to offer bachelors and even advanced degrees, so some students just stay there.
The difference in the student-faculty ratios of the two is neglible.
If school A attracts better students and graduates a higher percentage of students than school B then it's generally going to be a better school.
6 year graduation rate:
CU Boulder-68%
Penn State-87%
Student Faculty Rate:
CU Boulder-18:1
Penn State-17:1
Middle 50% SAT (CR/M)
CU Boulder-1090-1270
Penn State-1090-1300
Percent in top 25% in class
CU Boulder-59%
Penn State-87%
Can you really really with a straight face continue stating what a great school CU Boulder is? If you don't like Penn State that's fine but CU Boulder is not Penn State's equal. Penn State attracts more higher level students and graduates a larger percentage of them than Penn State. Those are better indicators of school quality than Nobel Prize winners.
Both schools aren't very good. Just look at their research grants for the last 20 years. Review their most recent work. Take a look at their NSF applications. Also look at how many students drop out of college after their bachelors vs go on to finish college. Compared to schools like JHU, PSU and CU Boulder rank extremely low. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
If school A attracts better students and graduates a higher percentage of students than school B then it's generally going to be a better school.
But Penn State doesn't "attract(s) better students and graduate(s) a higher percentage of students". Penn State starts over 60% of its freshmen at the commonwealth campuses. Look at this neat little table I found when I searched one of the campuses:
Requirement Type_____________University Park _________All other Penn State Campuses
High School GPA_______________3.52-3.97_________________2.96-3.46
Combined SAT________________1750 to 1990______________1470 to 1720
Composite ACT________________26 - 30___________________21 - 25
Combined English/Writing ACT_____25-30___________________20-25
After two years, many of these students in the second group, who are not counted in PSU's initial stats, transfer to the main campus and graduate from same. So the graduating class is a very different group from the freshman class at the main campus. Do you see how it's probable that more students from the second group take longer to finish (or not finish at all)? Do you see how they have lower HS GPAs, SATs, ACTs? Do you see how it's likely that fewer of the second group are in the top 25% of their HS class?
There is barely a difference between the two schools in the SAT mid-scores from your post, and presumably Penn State's scores are from the University Park campus. In fact, they are almost identical.
Both schools aren't very good. Just look at their research grants for the last 20 years. Review their most recent work. Take a look at their NSF applications. Also look at how many students drop out of college after their bachelors vs go on to finish college. Compared to schools like JHU, PSU and CU Boulder rank extremely low. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Uh, no. Take a look at CU's Nobel Prize winners in physics in the last 13 years-5 of them. What do you think the physics department is doing, if not getting research grants, NSF money, etc?
Personally, I think Penn State and Colorado serve their purposes: big state Us that are good options for Pennsylvania and Colorado residents. They're not bad schools, but neither are among the top state schools or much of a draw for outside their regional areas.
Case is a University. It's not a technical Institute, nor is is a Liberal Arts College. It's a research oriented University with a wide variety of majors much like the Ivy League Schools.
Still-your list is yours. You don't have to put any particular school on your list.
I made a separate list of Public Ivies.
All 8 of the Ivies are on the list of schools with very high research activity (Carnegie Classification). So I would think that a list of schools similar to the Ivies should include a substantial number of schools that turn out a high level of research. There are 34 private universities on the list of schools with very high research activities.
My comments in red above. Liberal Arts colleges can be great schools. I really wanted my son to go to one but he chose Case instead. I think they give students exceptional undergraduate experiences. I love that they are more focused on undergraduates than some universities. But they are not comparable to the Ivy League schools which are Universities.
I guess I copped out with my regional lists so I will put together my list:
Stanford
Cal Tech
Duke
Vanderbilt
Wash U
Chicago
Northwestern
USC
You do realize that the Undergrad programs a most of the Ivy's are actually colleges, liberal arts colleges, don't you??
Personally, I think Penn State and Colorado serve their purposes: big state Us that are good options for Pennsylvania and Colorado residents. They're not bad schools, but neither are among the top state schools or much of a draw for outside their regional areas.
The heck you say! About 40% of CU's freshmen come from out of state, with the biggest number from California. There is a policy that 66% of the graduating class has to be from CO.
As for the research monies that MJJersey brought up: "CU ranks fifth among public universities in federally financed research and 12th among public universities in all research expenditures in the science and engineering fields, based on data collected by the National Science Foundation. Sponsored research within the university system represents annual awards totaling more than $790 million."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No state schools, remember.
