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In the past when tuition was much lower than it is today, it was more common than it is now.
Do you understand that in last thirty years tuition has gone up at a rate roughly 3 X greater than the rate of inflation?
What implications do you think this has for people who earn wages near the bottom of the scale?
I have 2 in college right now....so yes, I'm fully aware of that. Are you aware that wages have gone up as well. I've given plenty of examples to the contrary that someone that needs to work through college can do that today, just like they did in the '70's making $1.60/hour. People can't seem to get past going full-time here though...it's not a requirement that you go to school full-time...
Implications for low wage earners---FINANCIAL AID.....
From another thread---financial aid numbers from the great state of Colorado showing costs for a student coming from a family of 4 making $50,000/year--obviously if this were a 25 year old making $20,000/year the numbers would be even better:
U of Colorado....
Estimated tuition and fees $7,156
+ Estimated room and board charges
(Includes rooming accommodations and meals)
$10,240
+ Estimated cost of books and supplies $2,000
+ Estimated other expenses
(Personal expenses, transportation, etc.) $4,730
Estimated total cost of attendance: $24,126
- Estimated total grant aid:
(Includes both merit and need based grant and scholarship aid from Federal, State, or Local Governments, or the Institution)
$8,500
Estimated Net Price After Grants and Scholarships: $15,626
Grants and scholarships do not have to be repaid. Some students also qualify for student loans to assist in paying this net price; however, student loans do have to be repaid.
and again for the heck of it=--NPC from Colorado College for that same student:
My Estimated Net Price for Academic Year 2013-14 is $ car_image
How did we calculate your net price? Your net price is the cost of attendance (estimated below) minus grants and scholarships (money you do not have to pay back) that you may receive.
Estimated Cost of Attendance
Estimated Total Cost of Attendance car_image$
Tuition & Fees car_image$44,222
Room & Board car_image$10,312
Books & Supplies car_image$1,244
Transportation car_image$,
Personal Expenses car_image$1,022
Estimated Grant/Gift Aid,50,945
ESTIMATED NET PRICE car_image$5,855
Estimated Self Help
Estimated Total Self Help car_image$5600
Self-Help car_image$5600 ESTIMATED REMAINING COST car_image$ 255
So, do we want to talk some more about "low" income individuals?
I know. I said that there are income restrictions. Did you not read my post?
Anyone with any tax knowledge would have to assume there would be income restrictions if you wanted to claim an adult. Or am I overestimating people's critical thinking skills?
Point is, you scratched and clawed your way through college (I presume from a salt of the earth, poor background) and your children have done the same through sheer will and perseverance.
Gotcha. Everyone else who cannot achieve this seemingly simple zero debt thing just isn't as bright and determined as you and your offspring.
I'm done with this conversation. There's a lack of empathy here that I find repellent.
Nope--both my parents were college educated, grew up in an upper middle class family/area but my parents believed that we were responsible for our own college expenses . Our kids also grew up in a similar environment but, we got lucky in the kid department and they did a great job in school.
I have no problem with the kids taking out student loans if they needed to....and our daughter will certainly have her fair share from dental school...but that is on her.
Empathy has nothing to do with it--it's simply pointing out facts and not making excuses--something responsible adults do day in and day out....
It's not really excuses though. Even your scenario only applies to someone working full time while taking one or two classes a semester at one of the cheapest state schools and living with several roomates the whole time... A scenario that takes usually at least 7 years to finish the degree and really only works in parts of the country where the cost of living is relatively low.
It's just not anywhere near as easy to do as it used to be. There really isn't anything to argue about, the numbers don't add up. People used to be able go full time to good colleges and work their way through. Now you increasingly have to go to a cheaper school and take years and years, even if your grades were good enough to go somewhere a little higher up the food chain. Choices for those without the means to pay or get funding are dramatically narrower than they used to be.
It's not really excuses though. Even your scenario only applies to someone working full time while taking one or two classes a semester at one of the cheapest state schools and living with several roomates the whole time... A scenario that takes usually at least 7 years to finish the degree and really only works in parts of the country where the cost of living is relatively low.
It's just not anywhere near as easy to do as it used to be. There really isn't anything to argue about, the numbers don't add up. People used to be able go full time to good colleges and work their way through. Now you increasingly have to go to a cheaper school and take years and years, even if your grades were good enough to go somewhere a little higher up the food chain. Choices for those without the means to pay or get funding are dramatically narrower than they used to be.
That is the point--that is NOT true....they went to the same state schools I'm talking about if they were working their way through college. Cheep doesn't mean bad either. Yes, it could take years, but its still better than not going at all...and again--for those that are over 24 and find themselves in this situation, they probably don't NEED to work that much because there will be financial aid for them....and for kids under 24 who can prove their parents are not supporting them at all find the same aid available.....
The other flaw in the author's argument is that costs have not gone up as much as he has said--what HAS changed is how much each state has subsidized those costs....so yes, the student pays more, but the overall costs have not increased as fast. I also find it odd that the per credit hour at a state school is the same as at the private school our kids attend. The other solution is to do what most private schools do and have a flat tuition free for 13-18 credits. Our state flagship does this as well. That brings the per credit hour down some....
That is the point--that is NOT true....they went to the same state schools I'm talking about if they were working their way through college. Cheep doesn't mean bad either. Yes, it could take years, but its still better than not going at all...and again--for those that are over 24 and find themselves in this situation, they probably don't NEED to work that much because there will be financial aid for them....and for kids under 24 who can prove their parents are not supporting them at all find the same aid available.....
No, it was true way back when. I've had people tell me such stories from the 60s and 70s and what not. State flagship, places like that. One guy talked about Berkeley in particular.
I guess you could say its better than not going, sure. I mean I could get shot and not die, and surviving is better than dying, but I'd rather not be shot in the first place. LOL
Emancipating a student is not as easy as you think it is. We've had to help some LGBT students do that after came out and thier parents disowned them. It's complicated and stressful and near impossible for an 18 year old to manage alone.
Anyway, it's not some universally available solution that fits everyone no matter where they live. It really only works in certain circumstances. And do we really want to regulate part of the population to that narrow an opportunity to attend college, an option that is totally not based on merit but on luck of the draw concerning parental income? We didn't even touch on all the extracurriculars one cannot do in the full time worker/part time student scenario. What about working in a lab for free? Unpaid internships? Summer programs? Study abroad? If you want to be, say, a physical therapist you will almost certainly have to spend some time doing free work somewhere. How is that available to the kid who has to pay tuition and rent so they can't miss thier real jobs? aspiring doctors have to get in a lab, shadow doctors, log clinical hours and do tons of volunteering. Aspiring lawyers have to intern in a law firm and those never pay. I could go on.
I just don't think we get anywhere by overly simplifying things that really are pretty complicated. College costs are soaring and that has real effects.
I have 2 in college right now....so yes, I'm fully aware of that. Are you aware that wages have gone up as well. I've given plenty of examples to the contrary that someone that needs to work through college can do that today, just like they did in the '70's making $1.60/hour. People can't seem to get past going full-time here though...it's not a requirement that you go to school full-time...
Implications for low wage earners---FINANCIAL AID.....
From another thread---financial aid numbers from the great state of Colorado showing costs for a student coming from a family of 4 making $50,000/year--obviously if this were a 25 year old making $20,000/year the numbers would be even better:
U of Colorado....
Estimated tuition and fees $7,156
+ Estimated room and board charges
(Includes rooming accommodations and meals)
$10,240
+ Estimated cost of books and supplies $2,000
+ Estimated other expenses
(Personal expenses, transportation, etc.) $4,730
Estimated total cost of attendance: $24,126
- Estimated total grant aid:
(Includes both merit and need based grant and scholarship aid from Federal, State, or Local Governments, or the Institution)
$8,500
Estimated Net Price After Grants and Scholarships: $15,626
Grants and scholarships do not have to be repaid. Some students also qualify for student loans to assist in paying this net price; however, student loans do have to be repaid.
Not sure where you are getting those numbers but you realize that's per semester for tuition and fees......not year.
Our son got hardly anything in Stafford loans. No grants. Thanks goodness we pay for his tuition or who know how long he'd have to go to school if he tried to work his way through or how far in debt he'd be.
Not sure where you are getting those numbers but you realize that's per semester for tuition and fees......not year.
Our son got hardly anything in Stafford loans. No grants. Thanks goodness we pay for his tuition or who know how long he'd have to go to school if he tried to work his way through or how far in debt he'd be.
Those numbers are right off the U of Colorado website Net Price Calculator. Those are their total costs as they report. The net price calculator is something every college is required to have available on their website. Those are year long numbers, not per semester. If you also looked a the other numbers from Colorado College, you will see that the funds available at private schools are much greater and cost less in the long run. I don't know your financial situation but every college student that completes the FAFSA is eligible for the exact same loan amounts each year, the rest depends on your income. Since you can afford to pay his college costs, I'm going to assume you don't fall into the lower income category with limited assets like we were talking about, but, if you didn't have those funds, could your son work during the summer and school year to come up with $7,156?
Actually, there are a lot of clerical jobs at CU that are filled by non-students. A friend of mine worked in the admissions office doing clerical stuff. I have no idea what their tuition reimbursement policy is.
Most colleges and universities offer free tuition to employees and their immediate families, which becomes a major perk for employees with children.
I went to college in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and it really wasn't any more feasible to "work your way through college" then than it is today, and contrary to myth, students graduated with debt back then, too. College costs were low and student loans were small compared to today's costs and loans but so were the paychecks you brought home.
Those numbers are right off the U of Colorado website Net Price Calculator. Those are their total costs as they report. The net price calculator is something every college is required to have available on their website. Those are year long numbers, not per semester. If you also looked a the other numbers from Colorado College, you will see that the funds available at private schools are much greater and cost less in the long run. I don't know your financial situation but every college student that completes the FAFSA is eligible for the exact same loan amounts each year, the rest depends on your income. Since you can afford to pay his college costs, I'm going to assume you don't fall into the lower income category with limited assets like we were talking about, but, if you didn't have those funds, could your son work during the summer and school year to come up with $7,156?
I'm not sure why you cling to the idea that there are tons of jobs out there where a student could net that kind of money. Aside from a few rec jobs, which don't pay much, there really are no "summer jobs" to speak of. You talked about amusement park jobs, and there is a big amusement park in Denver, but still, not everyone can work there. Other jobs are year-round, and usually involve restaurant or retail work.
You can set up hypothetical financial aid scenarios till the cows come home, but everyone's situation is different. You cannot predict what anyone's costs will be. You do know that for FAFSA-based aid, you have to be indigent or nearly so to qualify for anything other than loans and jobs? Colorado College is known as a rich kids' school.
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. Our kids also grew up in a similar environment but, we got lucky in the kid department and they did a great job in school.