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I have been thinking about this very topic for a very long time also. It's an interesting one. When I was very, very young, I was told that I was going to college. PERIOD - no ifs, ands or buts about it. I did so. Being educated is important to a country and an economy. The type of education and the source of education however, is also not written in stone. Education may be gleaned from a variety of sources, not the least of which is experience. Education also provides one with (in my view) a world coin with which one may meet others on some sort of common ground. For example, if you are "educated" in a certain subject, you may then exchange ideas with others who have had a similar educational experience. That is a positive thing.
What is not positive is that, in the name of a free education for all, countless millions of students are being forced into places (classrooms) where they haven't the least interest (witness the complete murder of education by these insane educational ideas - common core for one - insane and relentless testing - (I could go on and on) and you have a failure of a system and an unhappy and failing populace PERIOD.
College is big business and for that reason, the inane graduating from high school and immediately shoving off for college will be here forever. Think of just one school and the money generated by the students there - renting dorm space, buying food packages, books, computers, you name it. Now think of all the service jobs attached to that school - heat, light, cleaning services, food delivery - I know I am not including thousands of other things to this list. Take that all away and imagine how many people would be out of jobs. It's endless.
The answer? Toss tests into the garbage heap where they belong. Allow teachers to teach their kids. Take away the insane power that administrators hold over their teachers by making them subject to the same reviews and the same threat of being watched, pressured and possibly terminated. Begin vocational training for all students, EARLY. Everyone should have industrial arts included in their educations. These programs were wiped out decades ago in NYC as well as (I am willing to bet) in other locations. Give kids a chance to take a break and work in fields of interest - when they are small, this could be a trip to a company to learn about designing, architecture, etc. For others it may be a movie set. The possibilities are endless.
As the students get older, the trips become more specialized - electronics, machinery, etc. Internships may be offered for vacations, breaks or summer holidays. In this way, by the time a student graduates from high school, he or she will have a much better idea of their direction in life.
Why force a round peg into a square hole? Why force teeming alive crowds into artificial atmospheres where many of them may not flourish to their full potential? It makes no sense and unless our fearless "leaders" wake up now, the future will not be the stars for us, but rather, the mud.
I have been thinking about this very topic for a very long time also. It's an interesting one. When I was very, very young, I was told that I was going to college. PERIOD - no ifs, ands or buts about it. I did so. Being educated is important to a country and an economy. The type of education and the source of education however, is also not written in stone. Education may be gleaned from a variety of sources, not the least of which is experience. Education also provides one with (in my view) a world coin with which one may meet others on some sort of common ground. For example, if you are "educated" in a certain subject, you may then exchange ideas with others who have had a similar educational experience. That is a positive thing.
What is not positive is that, in the name of a free education for all, countless millions of students are being forced into places (classrooms) where they haven't the least interest (witness the complete murder of education by these insane educational ideas - common core for one - insane and relentless testing - (I could go on and on) and you have a failure of a system and an unhappy and failing populace PERIOD.
College is big business and for that reason, the inane graduating from high school and immediately shoving off for college will be here forever. Think of just one school and the money generated by the students there - renting dorm space, buying food packages, books, computers, you name it. Now think of all the service jobs attached to that school - heat, light, cleaning services, food delivery - I know I am not including thousands of other things to this list. Take that all away and imagine how many people would be out of jobs. It's endless.
The answer? Toss tests into the garbage heap where they belong. Allow teachers to teach their kids. Take away the insane power that administrators hold over their teachers by making them subject to the same reviews and the same threat of being watched, pressured and possibly terminated. Begin vocational training for all students, EARLY. Everyone should have industrial arts included in their educations. These programs were wiped out decades ago in NYC as well as (I am willing to bet) in other locations. Give kids a chance to take a break and work in fields of interest - when they are small, this could be a trip to a company to learn about designing, architecture, etc. For others it may be a movie set. The possibilities are endless.
As the students get older, the trips become more specialized - electronics, machinery, etc. Internships may be offered for vacations, breaks or summer holidays. In this way, by the time a student graduates from high school, he or she will have a much better idea of their direction in life.
Why force a round peg into a square hole? Why force teeming alive crowds into artificial atmospheres where many of them may not flourish to their full potential? It makes no sense and unless our fearless "leaders" wake up now, the future will not be the stars for us, but rather, the mud.
So your answer boils down to letting kids do whatever they want in school as long as they get to take some field trips?
What if all the teacher wants to teach their kids is how to macrame plant hangers? Is that ok? What if a teacher doesn't think that kids need to learn to do math, for example and just wants to focus on reading books? Is that ok? You want to remove all of the oversight so how do you make sure kids are learning? What is the role of the parents in your plan? Why can't they do some of this? Are you willing to cough up the extra funds to support your plan?
Our kids have taken field trips, had career days in school, in high school they had a class where they took career interest surveys, investigated possible careers related to what they found on those surveys, did job shadowing in those fields, interviewed people in those fields, etc. They had vo-tech classes in middle school--wood shop, metals, home-ec (Family and Consumer Sciences), etc. In high school they had a full compliment of vocational programs available to them if they wanted. In every state high school kids can take classes at the vocational colleges/community colleges that count for high school and college credit at the same time.
I don't see where in my post I indicated that I would allow kids to "do whatever they want in school as long as they get to take some field trips." Would you kindly point out where I specifically said this?
You have certainly condemned my idea roundly and soundly, haven't you? Why have you taken such a defensive stance on this issue?
As for "coughing up" extra funds? I do have a cold right now but I haven't, this morning, solved the problems of the universe yet. May I have until 10 a.m. to do so?
In such a threatening atmosphere as you have provided to me at least, an interesting exchange of ideas is certainly not welcomed.
I don't see where in my post I indicated that I would allow kids to "do whatever they want in school as long as they get to take some field trips." Would you kindly point out where I specifically said this?
You have certainly condemned my idea roundly and soundly, haven't you? Why have you taken such a defensive stance on this issue?
As for "coughing up" extra funds? I do have a cold right now but I haven't, this morning, solved the problems of the universe yet. May I have until 10 a.m. to do so?
In such a threatening atmosphere as you have provided to me at least, an interesting exchange of ideas is certainly not welcomed.
No, I was simply asking for more clarification on your idea? How do you propose to measure progress in your idea?? You've removed all oversight so yes, you are implying that teachers and students can do what they want because there are not parameters for evaluating success and no one to monitor progress.
Where have I indicated that all oversight has been removed? Implications and assumptions often take the form of unnecessary attack. Why not simply ask what I had in mind, rather than come on so strongly against my ideas?
I still fail to see where I have "implied" that, "teachers and students can do what they want because there are not parameters for evaluating success and no one to monitor progress."
No--that is the definition of a vocational school or community college....
I do not see the recent grads as lazy at all. I also think you have a very distorted view of a true 4 year college situation and seem to be going off a story of one or two kids you might hear about. As the parent of current college students, their friends, classmates, the children of our friends, their friends, etc. have very motivated students. In my circle of friends that I meet up with on a regular basis--our kids were in high school at the same time but all at the same schools---we have I think 40 kids between us. All but 3 of those kids are deans list students, most are STEM kids, but not all, attending top notch schools across the country. Most are taking 16-18 credits, a few are taking 19-20 credits. They are all involved in something in school--varsity athletics, music, etc. They are far from lazy. None of them are art history majors .
The percentages are not divided up equally among socioeconomic classes or regions of the country. Kids are more inclined to follow in their parents' footsteps as well. There are many upper middle class schools where a high percentage of students go into engineering and medicine, particularly if the school district is located near a tech hub or an air force base or something. I can think of several examples of this just in southwest Ohio.
A friend of mine went to a private school in Virginia very close to DC. 40% of his graduating senior class are now lawyers. Similarly, there is a all girls catholic high school in my region where more than 75% of the graduates study education or nursing. National statistics don't tell the whole story unless you are dealing with a random sample of a national population.
The percentages are not divided up equally among socioeconomic classes or regions of the country. Kids are more inclined to follow in their parents' footsteps as well. There are many upper middle class schools where a high percentage of students go into engineering and medicine, particularly if the school district is located near a tech hub or an air force base or something. I can think of several examples of this just in southwest Ohio.
A friend of mine went to a private school in Virginia very close to DC. 40% of his graduating senior class are now lawyers. Similarly, there is a all girls catholic high school in my region where more than 75% of the graduates study education or nursing. National statistics don't tell the whole story unless you are dealing with a random sample of a national population.
Why would I care about data that's "divided up equally among socioeconomic classes" (whatever that means)? I'm comparing the U.S. to other countries.
You can give all the excuses you want. The fact still remains that the lazy, entitled american kids these days have given up the technological race to harder working kids from other countries.
No--that is the definition of a vocational school or community college....
I do not see the recent grads as lazy at all. I also think you have a very distorted view of a true 4 year college situation and seem to be going off a story of one or two kids you might hear about. As the parent of current college students, their friends, classmates, the children of our friends, their friends, etc. have very motivated students. In my circle of friends that I meet up with on a regular basis--our kids were in high school at the same time but all at the same schools---we have I think 40 kids between us. All but 3 of those kids are deans list students, most are STEM kids, but not all, attending top notch schools across the country. Most are taking 16-18 credits, a few are taking 19-20 credits. They are all involved in something in school--varsity athletics, music, etc. They are far from lazy. None of them are art history majors .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy
The percentages are not divided up equally among socioeconomic classes or regions of the country. Kids are more inclined to follow in their parents' footsteps as well. There are many upper middle class schools where a high percentage of students go into engineering and medicine, particularly if the school district is located near a tech hub or an air force base or something. I can think of several examples of this just in southwest Ohio.
A friend of mine went to a private school in Virginia very close to DC. 40% of his graduating senior class are now lawyers. Similarly, there is a all girls catholic high school in my region where more than 75% of the graduates study education or nursing. National statistics don't tell the whole story unless you are dealing with a random sample of a national population.
Oddly, I agree with both of you, to a point. My kids are a little older than golfgal's as are most of my friends' kids. However, the vast majority are college grads, and worked hard in college, and are now working hard at their jobs. However, I don't get the diss on art history. My personal physician majored in art history as an undergrad.
To Chemistry_Guy's points, my DH went to a rather tony high school (for a public school) that has put out a large number of lawyers. By contrast, the high school I went to in a mill town in Pennsylvania has a lot of teachers from my graduating class. When I was back in HS, most of the people in my town who had college degrees were teachers. Teaching and nursing, yeah, good occupations for good Catholic/Lutheran girls.
Actually, considering how competitive med school admissions are, I think the friend probably made the right decision.
I would not have achieved anything close to what I have so far if I gave up so easily because I thought I would never succeed.
If you have big dreams or goals in life, you have to try extremely hard to achieve them. Of course, all the naysayers will keep telling you it is impossible to do so.
Thomas Edison did not invent the light bulb in one try. It took him thousands of tries.
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