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Old 04-18-2014, 01:59 PM
 
2,885 posts, read 3,396,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dba07 View Post
Correct an MFA is considered a terminal degree whilst not being a doctorate. For accreditation purposes it is theoretically equivilent to doctorates, though your point is noted.
A JD on the other hand is considered a terminal degree and it is considered functionally equivalent to the PhD in terms of hiring, tenure and promotion in every program.

I would say it depends on how you determine what par is. Law school is difficult, and the bar can be very tough in some states, but it different from those of us who had to do the dissertation thing. That is a different kind of hell I suppose.
I see that you are from London. I'm curious -- are you English? If so, your standards and expectations may be different than ours in the US.

Law school is not necessarily very hard here, and some really mediocre people make it through to graduation and pass the bar. There are law schools here that will admit and graduate just about anyone with a BA, a checkbook, and a pulse. When I was in management I had a member of the bar working as a clerk for less than $15 per hour, and she was barely worth that. Another bar member of my acquaintance tended the desk at the local YMCA. Of course not all American lawyers and law schools are like this -- some have the highest imaginable standards and rigor . . .
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:11 PM
 
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I just thought of a relevant example: I, a non-lawyer, have personally published a paper in an archival, peer-reviewed journal dedicated to matters of law. On the other hand, I can't say that I have ever seen a lawyer publish a paper in an archival, peer-reviewed journal in my primary field (one of the mathematical sciences). I found it easy to pick up the required knowledge to get into the law journal -- as they say, it's not rocket science
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Do you even understand what this thread is about?
Yes.

It is about the educational quality of a J.D., which is pretty darned good IHO(in Harrier's opinion),
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Yes.

It is about the educational quality of a J.D., which is pretty darned good IHO(in Harrier's opinion),
Holy, moley. That's exactly what the thread is NOT about. The thread is trying to compare the JD with the PhD, not judge the educational quality of the JD. The JD is just fine for training lawyers to practice law. Good grief . . .
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dba07 View Post
I would say it depends on how you determine what par is. Law school is difficult, and the bar can be very tough in some states, but it different from those of us who had to do the dissertation thing. That is a different kind of hell I suppose.
Interestingly I've heard from acquaintances in the UK that lawyer quality on average has gone down due to the "graduate degree" (GDL) option - and it was better when the "just an undergraduate" LL.B. was the entry route.

Of course this somewhat reflects somewhat different value systems in American and English higher education - the latter was more "elitist" while the Americans valued the idea of mass education more. So for a long time an honours BA was viewed as more or less equivalent to a US masters. Not sure if that's true anymore though as there seems to be an "Americanization" of higher education and recent governments have pushed for 50% university attendance.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Your husband may very well be a phenomenal person -- some lawyers indeed are -- and I believe you when you say that he is. But to pretend that the standard that he met and that you cite is typical of a law student is simply absurd. Are you indeed suggesting that this is indeed typical? If so, where are the resulting tens-of-thousands of law papers published each year? More generally, it is temporally impossible that he could have accomplished any research in three years of law school chopped into semester courses that is even remotely comparable to what he might have accomplished in six-year or more years as a doctoral candidate; there simply is not enough time.
I think this reflects the fact that law schools attract at the higher end highly intelligent people. It's not the difficulty of the degree itself.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Holy, moley. That's exactly what the thread is NOT about. The thread is trying to compare the JD with the PhD, not judge the educational quality of the JD. The JD is just fine for training lawyers to practice law. Good grief . . .
Harrier has met some really sharp JD's and some really dumb PhD's.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Harrier has met some really sharp JD's and some really dumb PhD's.
Oh he has, has he?

This thread is degenerating into noise now, but it's been fun . . .
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
I think this reflects the fact that law schools attract at the higher end highly intelligent people. It's not the difficulty of the degree itself.
Good observation.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Oh he has, has he?
Yes.
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