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Old 04-18-2014, 07:07 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,065 posts, read 9,796,392 times
Reputation: 18898

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
Your husband may very well be a phenomenal person -- some lawyers indeed are -- and I believe you when you say that he is. But to pretend that the standard that he met and that you cite is typical of a law student is simply absurd. Are you indeed suggesting that this is indeed typical? If so, where are the resulting tens-of-thousands of law papers published each year? More generally, it is temporally impossible that he could have accomplished any research in three years of law school chopped into semester courses that is even remotely comparable to what he might have accomplished in six-year or more years as a doctoral candidate; there simply is not enough time.

I am curious -- have you, yourself, been through a PhD program? If you had, you would understand what I am saying. Have you been through law school, or is this vicarious?

It's interesting that you cite his work in the Federal Government. As I posted earlier, the Federal Government's OPM values a JD as being the equivalent of a masters degree. Look this up if you don't believe me.

Whether he has various people working under him now is of no relevance whatever to whether the JD is on par with the PhD, especially in a governmental administrative position where managers are chosen on a number of criteria that often do not apply in the private sector. I would hope that these underlings function at a certain level of professional autonomy. In other words, one need not be a subject-matter expert to have a management or administrative role, especially in the Government, nor does one even need to be professionally competent in the field that he is managing. Think of a symphony conductor -- does he or she have greater expertise in playing the cello, say, than the cello player? The management of highly skilled, highly educated people is very different than the management of a chain gang or of bag-boys in your local grocery store.
EdD (and no, I really don't feel like throwing that comparison discussion into the mix, I am pretty sure I can guess where you stand on that one) and I got an MS in Geoscience. I had actually thought about going back for a PhD in another field the last couple of years but decided at my age, 6 or so years was just too big a chunk of time and I'm looking forward to playing with my first grandkid instead.

I was married to him during law school, he's a JAG officer, by the way, not a civilian employee. I have some pretty strong memories of it even though it was loooooooong ago. He says you are right about the education requirements but other things go into the pay equation and that when everything is said and done a lawyer will make more money as a federal employee than most PhDs.

The problem with the law degree is that it probably belongs somewhere between a masters and a PhD. That said, it is sufficient to teach Business Law, School Law, Law School, and some other associated classes on the same level as a PhD or an EdD. We have a friend who has both degrees and his take is that it is harder to get into law school and the actual classes are harder, however it is harder to graduate from a PhD program.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:16 PM
 
339 posts, read 514,716 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
IIRC a number of years ago a lawyer put DR in front of his name in legal advertisements in Florida. The Florida Bar was informed and commenced an investigation. The Bar or later the Florida Supreme Court, I can't remember which, determined that since a juris doctorate was a doctorate it was not misrepresentation for a lawyer to call himself a doctor. So it has been determined, a JD is a doctorate. It doesn't mean it is a Phd though.
So the lawyers determine it's a doctorate and that lawyers can call themselves doctor. I never fail to be amazed by the height of their arrogance. It's pretentious to expect to be called doctor by anyone, other than by a doctor that's a physician in the medical field. Somewhere along the way we've gotten away from this. I don't have a problem calling a PhD educator: professor or sir or ma'am but I'm not going to call them doctor. It reminds me of the joke where a guy is having a heart attack and someone yells, "is there a doctor in the house?", and a PhD in literature responds, "I'm a doctor!"
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:42 PM
 
16,701 posts, read 18,921,823 times
Reputation: 6798
A Ph.D isn't what it use to be.... They graduate just about anyone now..... So to me, it's true a JD is pretty much an equivalent....
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:12 PM
 
12,661 posts, read 12,085,149 times
Reputation: 17301
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
A Ph.D isn't what it use to be.... They graduate just about anyone now..... So to me, it's true a JD is pretty much an equivalent....
You can say that about any degree program, including a JD.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:35 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 2,564,325 times
Reputation: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideman View Post
So the lawyers determine it's a doctorate and that lawyers can call themselves doctor. I never fail to be amazed by the height of their arrogance. It's pretentious to expect to be called doctor by anyone, other than by a doctor that's a physician in the medical field. Somewhere along the way we've gotten away from this. I don't have a problem calling a PhD educator: professor or sir or ma'am but I'm not going to call them doctor. It reminds me of the joke where a guy is having a heart attack and someone yells, "is there a doctor in the house?", and a PhD in literature responds, "I'm a doctor!"
What an ignorant statement. The term doctor comes from the Latin "docere" which means to teach and the term originally for scholars. It wasn't until the 18th century that physicians began to use the title. So it's the physicians who stole the term from the academics, not the other way around.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:41 PM
 
9,316 posts, read 13,856,052 times
Reputation: 9365
Well, as Abe Lincoln (self-taught in law) said, you can call a tail a leg but that don't make it so.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:08 PM
 
695 posts, read 693,304 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
You can say that about any degree program, including a JD.
Not medicine. Say what you will about healthcare but it's still exceedingly difficult to get into medical school in the US and Canada. Even with a perfect GPA and MCAT about 1 in 10 students still get rejected.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Aliso Viejo, Orange County, CA
4,736 posts, read 5,942,334 times
Reputation: 3833
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexdiamondz1902 View Post
Not medicine. Say what you will about healthcare but it's still exceedingly difficult to get into medical school in the US and Canada. Even with a perfect GPA and MCAT about 1 in 10 students still get rejected.
Actually 43% of all applicants are accepted and find seat in a medical school.
JHU Pre-Professional Advising

When tracked by application year, the average acceptance rate of applicants nationally over the past six years has been 43%, or less than one chance in two; whereas the average acceptance rate of applicants from Johns Hopkins over the past six years has been 68%, or two chances out of three. Acceptance rates look even better when we track by incoming cohort (instead of by medical school application year).
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,044 posts, read 3,637,288 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacific2 View Post
Actually 43% of all applicants are accepted and find seat in a medical school.
JHU Pre-Professional Advising

When tracked by application year, the average acceptance rate of applicants nationally over the past six years has been 43%, or less than one chance in two; whereas the average acceptance rate of applicants from Johns Hopkins over the past six years has been 68%, or two chances out of three. Acceptance rates look even better when we track by incoming cohort (instead of by medical school application year).
The applicant pool is self-selecting, isn't it? Something like 20% of those taking the MCAT score 30+ on it which is generally the minimum score required for admission to all medical schools.
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Old 04-19-2014, 12:07 AM
 
2,253 posts, read 2,564,325 times
Reputation: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
A Ph.D isn't what it use to be.... They graduate just about anyone now..... So to me, it's true a JD is pretty much an equivalent....
They do?
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