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I must congratulate you on this! I've always been an advocate of working to live, not living to work, and making do with less material cr@p in life in favor of more free time. Most people don't realize they have a choice. It doesn't have to be a rat race. Good for you!
Thanks. That's not possible for many with massive debt though. If someone owes $20K+ in student loans, they'll have to work FT (and then some) for years paying them off.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Big law firms have jobs for legal analysts, and all it takes is a generic BA.
You're making it out to be much rosier and easier than it is. I've read that it's difficult for recent law school grads to find full-time work; many spend the first few years working temp positions.
If it's difficult for law grads, how easy is it going to be for someone with just a BA? Those who had the foresight to do an internship or volunteer at a law office while in school probably have a decent chance. But a recent grad with no experience isn't going to have much luck getting an offer more significant than a receptionist or clerk.
Realistically, if someone wants to work in the legal field without committing to law school, the best bet is to get paralegal training. There are two-year programs for those without a degree, and certificate programs of those with. Even then it's still very competitive.
So once again, someone is much better off getting education/training for a specific job rather than a BA.
If it's difficult for law grads, how easy is it going to be for someone with just a BA? Those who had the foresight to do an internship or volunteer at a law office while in school probably have a decent chance. But a recent grad with no experience isn't going to have much luck getting an offer more significant than a receptionist or clerk.
Realistically, if someone wants to work in the legal field without committing to law school, the best bet is to get paralegal training. There are two-year programs for those without a degree, and certificate programs of those with. Even then it's still very competitive.
So once again, someone is much better off getting education/training for a specific job rather than a BA.
You have to know the jobs exist and where to find them, and where to apply. If someone's done an internship, they'd have the connections to make it happen. It's really just a grunt staff job, it's not a position from which a law grad can move up. A law grad shouldn't go near a job like that, it's dead-end. But for someone with a BA to market, it's a decent job with decent pay.
What did you WANT to do with your degree in history? What was your plan going in?
My plan going on was like I wrote in my message, a degree that could be utilized in business AND teaching if I so chose, not just teaching.
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Originally Posted by Blondy
Lots of entry level jobs at the Federal level do not require a specific type of degree. That is one of the last places where at most agencies, all that matters is you have a degree.
That being said, there are specific jobs related to history where a degree with a major in history can be used to qualify.
Go to USAjobs and type history or history degree in key words. Look at the qualifications and specialized experience required for the jobs that come up.
I will do that. Thank you.
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Originally Posted by biscuitmom
Most master's programs are filled with people who are already working or have experience in the field of study. Course assignments commonly expect you to build on this experience. If you head into a master's program without any real life experience, you'll be at a disadvantage from the get go.
Don't know where you got this idea, it's not true. When you apply for an position requiring a graduate degree, the application almost always asks you to list the undergrad school attended and degree obtained (BS, BA, etc.) but they seldom ask for the major. On the cover letter and in the interview you emphasize the education, skills and experience you want to spotlight, and if asked what your undergrad major was (highly unlikely), you put a positive spin on it.
If you apply for a job not requiring the grad degree, you still emphasize your final (masters) degree and, again, spin your qualifications to fit the position.
Frankly it sounds like right now you need some real world experience more than you need to rush off and enroll in a graduate program.
That is not true. I have filled out several applications already that DO want to know what you have your masters and bachelors in. I have never NOT put down what my bachelors degree was in. I guess I could put BA if I really wanted, but BA in what? They will ask and that was my point.
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Originally Posted by nightlysparrow
Why don't you run for office on some level of politics in your area? You could win.
Thanks for the vote of confidence? lol.
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Originally Posted by PanapolicRiddle
I have psychology BA. Probably the most significant regret I have is not getting a more practical education in something like nursing, computer science, engineering, or something else that prepares one for an actual job.
I would have also been much better off doing an apprenticeship for one of the skilled trades like electrician, HVAC, plumbing, etc. With an apprenticeship all you pay for is books, so it's much less expensive than a BA, and you learn skills for a well-paying, secure job (not always, but more so than with a BA).
Fortunately I graduated in 2000 when there was still decent financial aid and college was fairly affordable, so it didn't cripple me financially. I really feel for younger BA graduates who own $30K+; they'll probably be in debt for at least 15 years.
Sadly, I think college has become very much a (legal) racket for bilking money from those who don't know better. It's ridiculously expensive now, and unless you get a practical degree, mostly a waste of time and money.
I feel you man. I know that a degree in political science is not highly rated, but I think it is better than a degree in History and I can get all these idiots that constantly ask, "Are you going to teach?" off my back. And at my school the financial aid is HORRIBLE. You get what the government gives you. If you are an incoming freshman, you get scholarships, otherwise you get nothing.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
More schools are gearing up to offer full financial aid packages, and some offer full non-loan financial aid, so students won't be stuck with debt upon graduating.
Not at my school they aren't!
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
I know a guy who graduated with a BA in psychology a year ago, and he was offered a position by an insurance company as a salesman/insurance adjuster. They offered to train him. He was considering going for an MA in industrial psychology until he got that job offer. Others with psych degrees have gotten bank jobs, supervisor jobs at a variety of stores, jobs with the federal gov't in supervisory positions.
Yeah, that's nice, but do people who get a degree REALLY want a job as a supervisor in a store? I mean, I know that I don't.
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Originally Posted by tpike2
I got a Masters degree in Public Administration and went straight in from college. Has been an epic fail for me. I regret ever stepping foot on a college campus. Should have been an electrician. I seriously don't want to teach.
Why didn't it work out for you? Did something happen? I actually want to know..isn't an MPA like a MBA?
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Originally Posted by dazeddude8
I am all for going back to school in order to get a more "practical" degree but political science- do you know of jobs/industries that are specifically recruiting political science majors over history majors? School is usually not cheap and if I was going back for a "2nd round" I would surely want it to be in a degree that is directly applicable to the work force.
I really did want to do business, but I have taken finance twice(and dropped it twice) and this past semester, I took an economics class(I love economics). I probably could have made a C in the class, but I had already failed, I was working overnight and the calculus along was killing me. I go to a small college, but my professor in this department REFUSED to help me. And with me being math deficient since Algebra 1, no amount of tutoring was going to get me back on the right track fast. It's sad too, the book was EXTREMELY boring and written from a conservative view which I couldn't stand. I really loved Economics and he really killed my passion for it this semester. Oh btw, he was monotone too.
I got a Masters degree in Public Administration and went straight in from college. Has been an epic fail for me. I regret ever stepping foot on a college campus. Should have been an electrician. I seriously don't want to teach.
Did you apply for a job at those city or county halls? You can get something.
You're making it out to be much rosier and easier than it is. I've read that it's difficult for recent law school grads to find full-time work; many spend the first few years working temp positions.
If it's difficult for law grads, how easy is it going to be for someone with just a BA? Those who had the foresight to do an internship or volunteer at a law office while in school probably have a decent chance. But a recent grad with no experience isn't going to have much luck getting an offer more significant than a receptionist or clerk.
Realistically, if someone wants to work in the legal field without committing to law school, the best bet is to get paralegal training. There are two-year programs for those without a degree, and certificate programs of those with. Even then it's still very competitive.
So once again, someone is much better off getting education/training for a specific job rather than a BA.
Speaking from personal experience, I was a paralegal at a large firm without specialized training, only a B.A. in English. The skills needed for my particular job were strong interviewing skills and strong writing skills. At our firm, we didn't have any law school grads functioning in paralegal/legal assistant roles, or applying for such roles. All newly minted attorneys who applied with us and were hired became junior attorneys on various legal teams. This was seven years ago, but from what I understand from people still there, this hasn't changed.
My younger sister started out as a legal assistant at a massive corporate firm with a bachelor's degree in communications, no specialized legal training, and quickly moved up to her current position of managing an entire staff of paralegals. Her largest asset is not her degree, though it certainly plays to her skills, but her natural capacity of organizational management.
Both of us entered the field with an interest in using it to determine if we wanted to pursue JDs at any point. I decided very quickly that I did NOT want to become an attorney (and ultimately that being a paralegal wasn't really my thing, either, so I'm quite glad I didn't sink money into getting a paralegal certificate). My sister is still on the fence. She loves the work she does in her current role, and in her observations working closely with the attorneys on her team, is skeptical about how realistic it would be to maintain her preferred work-life balance. But she's not ruling out law school, at this point, either.
It certainly doesn't hurt to get a paralegal certificate, but it's also not necessarily required, depending on one's degree of experience and skillset.
I got a ba in history in 2005. I finally have a job this year that pays something. I work as a teacher in a elementary school. No one was giving me the time of day as far as interviews were concerned for the previous jobs I was applying for, and the only jobs I could get before were low paying jobs paying 8 or 9 dollars an hour. I understand your frustration. I think some bachelors degrees are useless and universities need to stop letting students major in them, although that won't happen because they'll lose money.
My plan going on was like I wrote in my message, a degree that could be utilized in business AND teaching if I so chose, not just teaching.
You have that degree. It just depends on your ability to market it. A history degree is like an English degree: very adaptable. Presumably you have good writing and analytical skills. Those apply to many jobs, some of which have been mentioned on this thread. I'm not sure what you have in mind, exactly, with "business", but you can go into journalism, the legal field, certain areas of marketing, potentially sales, real estate, you have lots of options.
As of late, I have been thinking about my major and I just do not like it. Honestly, if I had to go back and do it all over it again, I probably would not make it.
My major is in History and I fell hook, line, and sinker for the whole, "You can do anything with this degree!" and "Businesses do not care what you have a degree in, just as long as you have one!" Yeah, they got me, but I have been trying unsuccessfully to just deal with the fact that I have a degree in History. I am not teaching now, but when people heae what I got a degree in, they automatically assume that I am going to teach, which I am not. I just don't understand why English is so versatile, but History is not?
Anyways, the way for me to rectify this is by going back to school and majoring in something that I DO like. I am really active in politics and I would like to work for the city/state/federal government or a non-profit.
So my solution is this, I would like to go back for a BA in Political Science. I know, I know. Someone is going to tell me that they are both liberal arts degrees and they are the same, but the truth of the matter is, no they are not. While they are related on some levels, they are not the same and a person with a Political Science degree has far more job opportunities than someone with a History degree, IMHO, of course.
I thought about getting a Master's in Political Science as well and here is the problem that I see with that. While the Master's degree would supercede the Bachelor's, I would only be able to apply for Master degree positions. The minute that I dumbed myself down to apply for anything entry level, just to get my foot in the door, I would have to use the History degree again. Ugh.
So my idea is this, I go and transfer to the area that I will be moving to, and start taking Political Science classes. Nothing fast, but like 2 per semester and 1 in the summer. It would take me two years but i would be done. What do you guys think?
P.S. And just to emphasis again "the hate", I really wish colleges would stop offering History degrees all together for at least a decade, maybe two. The reason for that is so the number of college grads can somehow equal out to the level of jobs. So hopefully when Joe Blow decides to go in for a History position, he doesn't have to compete with a hundred other folks either.
This is an excellent degree especially if you like being a political activist. Yes, get a minor degree in Political Science and then go into some kind of civil service. You will need to know world history and culture for you to go onto higher political civil service, which can take you to working abroad. Not like history?? History is the world "soap opera." I don't care what field you go into if you know history and where things evolved from, you will have a worldly grasp of why things are the way they are. Politics is all about history. You have to know say, NYC history if you want to be a great NYC politician...because you have to know how their policies evolved over the decades and years. NYC history is very rich and very interesting.
BTW I am a political activist and it is hard, not fun and you are always shoveling some blow hard politicians crap. Politics is so filthy, that when you come home you want to take a shower and wash off the narcissistic filth politicians wallow in. 90% of them are former lawyers and know who to shovel till you are up to muck past your eyeballs. They hate me. I do know my history and can hold my own in political discussions, so they cannot bambozzle me and razzle dazzle me with their double speak. Good Luck
Get a Masters in Human Resources, youll make bank....
Actually, I've heard the opposite.
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Originally Posted by Tinawina
For where you want to go sounds like you really need a MPA (Public Administration) degree, not political science necessarily. A second bachelors is a waste of time and money IMO.
You graduated into a crappy economy. When that happens, it will take a few more years to get off the ground unfortunately. Underemployment for the first (up to) 5 years in the norm under those circumstances. But eventually, you will leave the people without any degrees way behind.
I agree it would be best to work a few years then go back and get the masters.
I did try to look up information on the MPA, but I do not know a lot of people that have one and I even tried looking in another forum and it was the same thing. It seems that it is not as popular as say those with an MBA. You are right about me graduating in a crappy economy. It really sucks.
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Originally Posted by Easybreezy
I have an ancient BA in Political Science and most of my working career has had little to do with it. I did have a couple of jobs that did have a direct correlation with it, but not really mandatory that I have that particular degree. But having that BA in Poli Sci did make the job more interesting, and a little bit easier.
A History degree and a Political Science degree are rather similar. I don't see any real advantage to having one over the other in today's job market. You do not need a BA in Political Science if you have a BA in History.
Not knowing what the OP's interests are or their intentions, here is my recommendation. You should consider a Masters in Public Administration. It's a much more practical version of Political Science. There are some jobs in government management. You may wish to consider a concentration in Urban Planning which would open up some consulting positions way down the road.
I didn't think so either, but I will not lie to you, I see a lot of bashing of degrees, especially on here and for some reason when it refers to liberal arts, 9/10 times its don't major in History, so I guess in a way, I am trying to cover up for my mistake.
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Originally Posted by Mnseca
A second bachelor's in political science is an even worse idea than a first in history. I know plenty of people working in the field of political science - I live in the DC area - most got master's degrees with bachelor's in something else. A master's degree does not qualify you for more than an entry level position today, so there is no point in worrying about that.
However, a master's degree with no work experience is a waste of time. If you want to work in political science, then at least get some related work experience before you commit to a master's degree. You don't need a top level job - just something in the world of NGO's, perhaps, or DC nonprofits or international organizations, maybe even a political campaign. And you would need to attend a top school - degrees from mediocre schools in that field are worthless - preferably in an area like DC. Once you have some experience in an organization like that, even if all you are doing is making copies and answering the phone, you will have a better idea of what type of degree you need to move up.
Plus, I hate to say this, but people have been saying history degrees are worthless for a very long time, so you really should have known. Don't make the same mistake by getting a second degree in something else.
Wow, I did not know that, in fact, I would have thought something totally different. Yeah, I am surrounded by mediocre schools, and to be honest, that's all I can really afford. As for the history degree being worthless, I am a first time college graduate from my family. We didn't have computers growing up and I didn't start going to college until 2003. When I finally did find some bad stuff, I let my family know because I started to get worried and they just told me that it's the internet and anybody can just make up stuff. Fair enough. But now it seems like the people were telling the truth so idk.
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Originally Posted by Zara Ray
I'm originally from the Seattle/Tacoma area. Its true, its hard finding a decent entry level job with just a BA in a social science degree and the overabundance of people who already have years of work experience and higher education are hard to compete with. I had to move away from there to go to NY and the east coast to find more job opportunities that cater to Political Science and Economics, both my current majors.
I think learning a trade is excellent, especially for people who don't want to go through the University route and spend thousands of dollars for a degree. But a lot of younger people don't want that like you said.
To the OP, don't go back to undergrad for a BA in political science. If you really want, go to grad school in something employable and specialized that correlates to political science. Statistics and economics are two big quantitative skills that are very useful and helpful to find a good job within political science. I had professors emphasize in my political science classes that if you want to find a job within poli sci these days, make sure you are well versed in higher levels of math, statistics, and economics because competition for jobs are tough and you have to have employable skills that stand out from the rest of the applicants.
I would love to go to NY, but to be honest, I don't have the money and it is VERY expensive to live up there. I do like statistics so I will try to work on those skills and see what I come up with.
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This is an excellent degree
