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Thank you; very helpful post! I wonder if the same is true in terms of location of jobs, for agricultural biotech research.
Just from a quick Google search, those seem to be more spread out. I saw a few in Texas, Missouri, California and North Carolina. The jobs I saw are, for the most part, at larger companies like Monsanto or the FDA. I don't know if that's more the norm for ag jobs. Those would be comparable in my mind to a job with a Big Pharm company in drug related biotech. Very different than the small starts ups my daughter prefers to work for. She likes the challenge of new science and likes the process of helping build a new company. She's been involved on both the science and the business side at all her jobs and loves both.
If you have ANY Biotech companies in your area, try and get your son to apply for an unpaid internship. Or if that's not available, try and find someone in the field he can talk with and maybe shadow for a couple days. Either would begin to help him figure out if Biotech is the path he wants to take.
Just from a quick Google search, those seem to be more spread out. I saw a few in Texas, Missouri, California and North Carolina. The jobs I saw are, for the most part, at larger companies like Monsanto or the FDA. I don't know if that's more the norm for ag jobs. Those would be comparable in my mind to a job with a Big Pharm company in drug related biotech. Very different than the small starts ups my daughter prefers to work for. She likes the challenge of new science and likes the process of helping build a new company. She's been involved on both the science and the business side at all her jobs and loves both.
If you have ANY Biotech companies in your area, try and get your son to apply for an unpaid internship. Or if that's not available, try and find someone in the field he can talk with and maybe shadow for a couple days. Either would begin to help him figure out if Biotech is the path he wants to take.
I appreciate your information. The school he is most interested in has a prominent program in agriculture, and he may wind up in research in that area as a student.
He attempted to do an internship or "job shadow" over the summer. He and another student were referred to a local source by their counselor at school, and all spoke to a company rep over the speaker phone. After being strung along for weeks, asked to supply schedules, a resume, etc., they were told that that there wouldn't be any internships after all! I will consider being more involved next time; trying to foster independence...but I'm really ticked.
I graduated recently (2014) with a degree in Cell and Molecular Biology.
Right now I work as a research technician (run the experiments) at a major Boston hospital, but the key was doing research as an undergraduate. So key (really in any major) is to get experiential learning (internships, co-ops, research, etc), .
If you play your cards right, Bio is a great degree, similar to engineering or computer science (work in a high-tech field). But if you just major in bio and go to class your in trouble (even for graduate/medical school research is expected).
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Man74
A BS/BA in Biology is pretty much worthless without a Masters or even a PhD honestly...
Of course, if you go to medical school, PA school, dental school, OT/PT school, nursing, etc it's good
The things is that it's not "specified" in a technical/skill sense enough to actually be marketable.
I was a a bio/pre med student with good grades, good MCAT, volunteer, ECs... but honestly
UNLESS you go to a amedical profession or grad school... it's useless
It honestly won't matter how high of an A you got in Biochem, Genetics, Cell Bio, Anatomy & Phys 1 and 2 or Organic Chem 1 and 2... all easy classes honestly.. Because, employers won't see it as marketable
The fact that you know the sequence of a certain metabolic pathway and enzymes involved won't affect your job chances honestly
that's why i switched to Business lol
IN all honesty though, WHERE you went to school becomes the great "equalizer"
Some truth in this: if you want to go far in biology you need a graduate degree. A lot of the jobs that require only a B.S. are stepping stone jobs (mine included). You do the grunt work for a few years and go to med/grad school.
I don't entirely think that it depends where you go to school. Sure the bio major at Harvard will have access to world class labs but I went to a lower ranked state school, although it was the flagship state school of my state and turned out well. Really the major state schools are good for getting your foot in the door.
Yes a bachelors in biology or chemistry won't lead you to a six figure salary but it you land you a job that pays a living wage and get you to middle class status. My starting salary as an associate chemist (really a glorified lab technician with "chemist" in the job title) is $45k. It's decent money for the Atlanta area, I can afford a 110k foreclosed home in my surburb. If you want to make 100k+ in the biology/chemistry field you need to get a PHD in biology/chemistry. The Sr. Developmental chemists at my company make in the 100-125k range but you are required to have your PHD. If your happy making 40-60k for the rest of your life a bachelors in chemistry/biology is fine.
That's not bad salary for a BSc in Chem in Atlanta. The problem with being a science PhD though is the absurd job specialization. If you can actually get a job and hold it for a while, when you lose yours it gets hard to find a new one (I've seen it happen to many Pharma scientists in the northeast). Job ads rarely say PhD with 10 years experience. They say PhD with 8 years experience culturing candida albicans lines and other absurd things. Many of the job ads may be "purple squirrel ads" where they already have someone in mind or want to fill the spot with an H1-B visa who won't be able to quit or demand more money despite the working conditions or hours requested. However, some aren't and do to the glut of science PHDs the companies can get what they ask for.
Medicine, management, patent law, teaching etc. don't suffer from this phenomenon as much. Plan accordingly. If you're going to do research for these companies you may want to develop a decent clinical or engineering background. That will help you immensely when negotiating your salary and it will give you a wider range of job options after a layoff or while job hunting.
That's not bad salary for a BSc in Chem in Atlanta. The problem with being a science PhD though is the absurd job specialization. If you can actually get a job and hold it for a while, when you lose yours it gets hard to find a new one (I've seen it happen to many Pharma scientists in the northeast). Job ads rarely say PhD with 10 years experience. They say PhD with 8 years experience culturing candida albicans lines and other absurd things. Many of the job ads may be "purple squirrel ads" where they already have someone in mind or want to fill the spot with an H1-B visa who won't be able to quit or demand more money despite the working conditions or hours requested. However, some aren't and do to the glut of science PHDs the companies can get what they ask for.
Medicine, management, patent law, teaching etc. don't suffer from this phenomenon as much. Plan accordingly. If you're going to do research for these companies you may want to develop a decent clinical or engineering background. That will help you immensely when negotiating your salary and it will give you a wider range of job options after a layoff or while job hunting.
I agree with what you are saying and there is a lot truth in these statements. The biological/chemical industry is so broad that if your PHD research is not in demand in the industry you are most likely going to get stuck in a rut doing post doc after post doc. If I end up losing this current position it would probably take me several months probably years to find another chemist position because I work with thermosetting phenol formaldehyde resins and there isn't that many chemical companies looking for this particular skill. All the chemist jobs I see are looking for analytical chemist who has experience working in an analytical services lab using GC-MS, ICP-MS, UV-Vis, HPLC, and FT-IR. I wish my first job out of school was an analytical chemist position because it would of gave me more flexibility in the profession. Also, most chemist jobs I see in my area are contract positions paying $15-20 an hour with no benefits. I had to spend 8 and half months working at my current company for $17 an hour through aerotek and it was the most frustrating time ever. After 6 months, they extended my contract for another 6 months. Luckily, 2 and a half months later the innovation manager approved the budget for a long term project that provided the need for another permanent chemist so I was converted to permanent last month. Sorry if I got off topic but I hope anyone who wants to make a career in chemistry/biology don't end up going through the same trials and tribulations I went through because I have to admit my profession has some problems but it's doable if you have perseverance.
I don't entirely think that it depends where you go to school. Sure the bio major at Harvard will have access to world class labs but I went to a lower ranked state school, although it was the flagship state school of my state and turned out well. Really the major state schools are good for getting your foot in the door.
I agree with one caveat. Attend the state school that has a med school attached to it. Those will have research labs for part time jobs and internships. It's harder to come by those at a school not attached to a med school.
I agree with one caveat. Attend the state school that has a med school attached to it. Those will have research labs for part time jobs and internships. It's harder to come by those at a school not attached to a med school.
Yes, he wants to start out at just such a school. He's currently filling out applications!
My layman's observation is that biological research of the micro variety (especially genetics and bacteria/disease related) requires specialized computer skills. Look up bioinformatics....
I agree with one caveat. Attend the state school that has a med school attached to it. Those will have research labs for part time jobs and internships. It's harder to come by those at a school not attached to a med school.
There is a lot of truth into this: my school did not have a med school and a lot of the research was in bacteriology/biochemistry which is great but if you wanted to do research in something related to humans, e.g. cancer it was really hard to come by. I got really lucky in that my mother worked at a nearby medical facility, knew a scientist and mentioned I was interested in doing summer research and voila ended up in a leukemia research lab.
My wife has a PhD in biology, and I think we both agree that it's probably not worth it for most people. Once you get your first postdoc position your salary is defined by the NIH and likely starting around 40K a year, each year you'll get a small bump up to 48K. While not a bad salary, its certainly not much given the education level and hard work to get to this point. Lets not even get into the whole grant thing...in short, its a pain!
This is not an 8 hour job, it can vary depending on the type of research but long hours, 7 days a week, is not uncommon at all, and is more or less expected. One positive is the job tends to be pretty flexible, so you can work whatever hours you want more or less. There are not many Americans are in the field, my wife included, lots of Chinese and Europeans make their way over here for positions at universities around the country. I think my wife has only worked with a handful of Americans over the years in the lab.
Your entire career is about production of research papers, if you are lucky enough, yes, hard work doesn't really mean too much, in essence you have to get lucky regardless of how hard you work. If you manage to get papers published in dcent end journals you can slowly climb the later. You can become a PI/group leader and make good money, but again, long hours, lots of responsibility, and often times you'll be required to teach courses at the university as part of this promotion.
With that said, there are ways to deviate from research, you can get into sales, marketing, or technical support aspect, which pays better and can be very lucrative. Sales likely will require travel, but marketing/technical support is more standard work hours and can still pay pretty well. That's the direction my wife has headed but the field is so saturated its really hard to get your foot in the door. Since the field is filled with foreigners, this might be a good option since a lot of them don't even think about deviating from the standard post-doc/lab positions.
Basically, this type of life is only for those passionate about science, my wife was/is, but that even got to her because if you want a work/life balance, especially with a family, I would not recommend this career path.
To get into industry, the key is to network like crazy and meet the right people. With that said, I know plenty of people who have done the sales/marketing/tech support biotech roles without a PhD, its somewhat common to get into this with just a BS, but I think there is a trend that these roles need to be PhD level. Like anything, it can vary from company to company.
Anyways, that's my 2 cents, hope it helps and best of luck!
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