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Old 12-28-2015, 05:44 PM
 
3,613 posts, read 4,089,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siryevr View Post
many just want the easiest classes possible, so they can handle part time, or even full time classes, while working,. they are getting loans, grants, GI bill money, all very welcome additions to their very low paid jobs these days. They expect their student loans to be "forgiven', one day. If they become cops, nurses, fire fighters or teachers, they are correct about that expectation.

The only "secure" jobs these days are govt jobs, which require a Bachelor's. They do not require you to really know anything. You just have to have the scrap of paper. Many federal jobs retire you after 20 years, on 30k per year (no tax, no SS) and free medical care for yourself and your spouse, for life. the pension is worth another 20k per year (clear) The insurance, likewise, cause it gives full coverage for your <18yo kids, too. That's in today's money. In 20 years, if we still have a USA, the pension payment will be twice that, 60k per year.
That isn't even close to true. Yes, they have some retiree health plans, but they are NOT free. The pension depends on how much you made during your working years, not a flat amount and I would HOPE someone with 20+ years of work experience makes more than 20K/year in a pension. That first 30K, what is that?? I think you are confused.
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:41 PM
 
5 posts, read 9,987 times
Reputation: 32
I am going back to college in January after a LONG hiatus. I'm doing an online program and am majoring in Liberal Studies. (This will be a Bachelor's degree, btw.)

I work for a healthcare company I've been with for almost 11 years. I have a great job and make close to $70K...without a college degree. [I started at $40K 11 years ago as an admin with about 10 years experience under my belt; moved laterally into a different, non-admin position in 2008; and in 2014 was promoted two job levels and given a significant raise.] I'm getting my degree (finally) because there is no further mobility or promotability for me within the company without it. But I've spoken with several managers and VPs in the company, and they all say the same thing: they don't CARE what a person's degree is in; they only want to be able to check the box.

(Based on what I see in my group, this is true. One person has a degree in political science, another has a degree in recreational/sports management, another has a fine arts degree, and so on. Nobody in my group has a degree in a business-related field; no one in my group has a masters degree.)

So I'm majoring in Liberal Studies because those are the subjects -- history, religion, philosophy, literature, arts, etc. -- that interest me.

(To be fair, I am considering doing a post-bac certification in Business Analytics when I'm finished with my undergrad, but that's a way off, and my thinking on that subject may change between now and then.)
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:55 PM
 
1,720 posts, read 1,294,188 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Hospitality View Post
College is to provide us with a facility for continued research and learning which in return provide major contributions to society. You should check out a college campus sometime. Not just any college campus but a productive college campus such as CMU, Columbia, or Stanford. Take a look at how much focus is on research, innovation, and entrepreneurship and how little focus is on preparing someone for entry level work.

Undergraduate education prepares students to be successful in continuing their education and presenting new research to their respective field.
The problem is that there are very few research positions relative to the number of graduates. It's a nice pie-in-the-sky dream that everyone should go to grad school, but it's financially and practically unrealistic.

Some of us just didn't have the grades and/or financial resources for a 'real' school, so we had to settle for a state college or university. I went to the UW which you probably know is a very good, though fairly standard, large state university. It's unrealistic to expect most to attend an elite ivy league school.

Only a small portion of students have the drive and resources for grad school, so most persons in their late teen-early 20s would be better served either with a STEM degree, or forgoing a 4-yr school entirely in favor of professional/technical program at community college, or an internship for a skilled trade. For most prospective students these paths are far more practical than an LA education.
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:14 PM
 
8,364 posts, read 7,551,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Those web-based social-networking site marketing jobs don't require a marketing degree. The employers hire people with marketing degrees to do more traditional marketing, but they also hire people with web/net skills and writing skills to create and manage a comprehensive internet presence for the business (facebook Twitter, a blogsite, etc.). Magazines and newspapers do this, too. All you need is proven writing skills, and proven website development & maintenance skills that include a variety of internet venue types.
Yes, this is true. My son's best friend in college was a linguistics major. After college, he got a job writing for a "lifestyle" website and has since parlayed that into doing writing and research for other websites. He's earning a decent living and is happy with life.
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:15 PM
 
8,364 posts, read 7,551,420 times
Reputation: 10957
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanapolicRiddle View Post
The problem is that there are very few research positions relative to the number of graduates. It's a nice pie-in-the-sky dream that everyone should go to grad school, but it's financially and practically unrealistic.

Some of us just didn't have the grades and/or financial resources for a 'real' school, so we had to settle for a state college or university. I went to the UW which you probably know is a very good, though fairly standard, large state university. It's unrealistic to expect most to attend an elite ivy league school.

Only a small portion of students have the drive and resources for grad school, so most persons in their late teen-early 20s would be better served either with a STEM degree, or forgoing a 4-yr school entirely in favor of professional/technical program at community college, or an internship for a skilled trade. For most prospective students these paths are far more practical than an LA education.
STEM is no guarantee of a job after graduation. Just ask any biology major.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:20 PM
 
12,583 posts, read 8,816,051 times
Reputation: 34416
Quote:
Originally Posted by siryevr View Post
The only "secure" jobs these days are govt jobs, which require a Bachelor's. They do not require you to really know anything. You just have to have the scrap of paper. Many federal jobs retire you after 20 years, on 30k per year (no tax, no SS) and free medical care for yourself and your spouse, for life. the pension is worth another 20k per year (clear) The insurance, likewise, cause it gives full coverage for your <18yo kids, too. That's in today's money. In 20 years, if we still have a USA, the pension payment will be twice that, 60k per year.


Did you just pull this out of your butt? Where did you even come up with stupid thoughts like "free medical care for life?"
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:26 PM
 
12,583 posts, read 8,816,051 times
Reputation: 34416
Quote:
Originally Posted by senecaman View Post
Good to hear from you! I think the cat is pretty much out of the bag as far as how nice it is here but fortunately the growth is steady rather than explosive. We have some great schools here. Myself I started out at a junior college to get into Clemson. After a year at Clemson I dropped out for awhile and eventually returned to college at a branch campus of the U of South Carolina in Spartanburg (USC Upstate) which tuned out to be one of the best things I could have done. .

I'm familiar with Upstate, though I think it was still called USC-S and was still a two year school when I joined the service. Even applied for a position there once. I love the upstate region and would like to retire back there if I could.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,004 posts, read 7,141,761 times
Reputation: 17096
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanapolicRiddle View Post
Reading arguments like this, and with as someone with a BA, perfectly illustrates why I'm opposed to public funding for most LA fields.

If college isn't to prepare one for a job, then what is it for? Critical thinking skills? There have been a number of studies that strongly indicate most LA major aren't significantly better in this regard than non-LA majors, and are in fact only slightly better than the general public. With many LA majors little to no critical thinking is required. I didn't have to do all that much critical thinking with my degree. There were lots of multiple-guess tests, and most of the papers and essay tests I had were mostly regurgitation or eloquent B.S. I graduated with a 3.51 GPA, and, honestly, it wasn't that hard (it's just a psychology BA). I had lots of classmates in the same major who slacked off most of the time and still graduated with about a 3.0 GPA.

Look, if someone wants to attend college for 'personal enrichment' or some other nebulous personal reason, that's fine. But if it doesn't in some way prepare them for work in a tangible way, it doesn't make sense for others (public funding) to pay for it. Arguing that it helps develop 'critical thinking' seems like an ambigous, unsubstantial reason.
What?? Just a note - it is FAR cheaper to teach liberal arts than it is sciences. Running labs costs a lot more than paying 1 instructor to kibbitz in a room that's a sunk cost. Most colleges make high profit off lib arts classes and redirect it to the money pits that are science and medical labs.

Look, people, the liberal arts are part of most university mission statements. They were founded to include the liberal arts in their curricula. To not fund the liberal arts in state universities would be to disobey the mandates they were originally empowered and required by law to fulfill.

Let's just use some liberal arts skills and look at some of the original documents to see if we can discover anything that might shed light on this issue. According to their own charters:

University of Georgia, 1784:

Quote:
By the REPRESENTATIVES of the FREEMEN of the STATE of GEORGIA in General Assembly and by the AUTHORITY of the SAME.

An Act for the more full and complete Establishment of a public seat of Learning.... suitably forming the minds and morals of their Citizens. ...... It should therefore be among the first objects of those who wish well to the national prosperity to encourage and support the principles of Religion and morality, and early to place the youth under the forming hand of Society that by instruction they may be moulded to the love of Virtue and good Order.

.....that our present happiness joined to pleasing prospects should conspire to make us feel ourselves under the strongest obligation to form the youth, the rising hope of our Land to render the like glorious & essential Services to our country.
University Archives :: Hargrett Library :: University of Georgia Libraries

Pennsylvania State University, 1855:

Quote:
There is hereby erected and established, at the place which shall be designated by the authority,
and as hereinafter provided, an institution for the education of youth in the various branches of
science, learning and practical agriculture, as they are connected with each other, by the name,
style, and title of The Pennsylvania State University.

....It shall be the duty of the Board of Trustees as soon as and as often as the exigencies of the case
may require, in addition to the principal, to employ such other professors, teachers, or tutors as
shall be qualified to impart to pupils under their charge a knowledge of the English language,
grammar, geography, history, mathematics, chemistry, and such other academic disciplines as
may be deemed appropriate from time to time.
http://www.psu.edu/trustees/pdf/charter.pdf

University of California, 1868:

Quote:
The University shall have for its design, to provide instruction and thorough and complete education in all departments of science, literature, art, industrial and profession pursuits, and general education, and also special courses of instruction in preparation for the professions of Agriculture, the Mechanic Arts, Mining, Military Science, Civil Engineering, Law, Medicine and Commerce, and shall consist of various Colleges, namely:

First--Colleges of Arts.
Second--A College of Letters.
Third--Such professional and other Colleges as may be added thereto or connected therewith.
http://vm136.lib.berkeley.edu/BANC/C...y/charter.html

University of Texas, 1876:

Quote:
The Legislature shall, as soon as practicable, establish, organize and provide for the maintenance, support and direction of a university of the first class, to be located by a vote of the people of this State, and styled "The University of Texas," for the promotion of literature, and the arts and sciences, including an agricultural and mechanical department.
http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/consti...s/texas1876/a7

The 1861 Morill Act, which established many of our state universities:

Quote:
each State which may take and claim the benefit of this act, to the endowment, support, and maintenance of at least one college where the leading object shall be, without excluding other scientific and classical studies, and including military tactics, to teach such branches of learning as are related to agriculture and the mechanic arts, in such manner as the legislatures of the States may respectively prescribe, in order to promote the liberal and practical education of the industrial classes in the several pursuits and professions in life.
So it looks to me like liberal arts are supposed to be funded and taught.

Last edited by redguard57; 12-28-2015 at 10:42 PM..
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:38 PM
 
6,439 posts, read 6,866,532 times
Reputation: 8739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I don't understand how your scoring system works.

OP, not everyone expects to find a job in their field with just a BA. They treat it as a generic BA with which they can get a more-or-less generic job, and begin to work their way up in whatever business they land a job in. I know a guy who graduated with a BA in psychology, who was offered a job selling insurance; he was offered training, and all that. There are quite a few bank teller jobs open in my town currently, and they're hiring generic BA's. A BA in psychology could turn out to be helpful after someone rises to a supervisory position.

To see the advice given to history majors (we've had so many threads on that topic!), use the search feature on this site. History majors can do similar things to English majors: writing of various sorts (journalism, editing, etc.), university or community college tutoring, legal aid in a law office, web-based marketing for businesses, teaching English as a second language, etc. It depends on what kind of internships and/or part-time work they've done while in school, and what other courses they've combined with their major.

The best time to worry about how to get a job with your "useless" degree would be while you're in school. Work for the school newspaper, to learn editing and journalism skills. That alone would make you stand out from some of your peers competing for jobs after graduation. Parlay that into an internship with a city newspaper or a local magazine. By the time you graduate, you'll have a very attractive resume to employers. And that's just one example.

Art History? Volunteer for the campus museum while in school. Write an article for its newsletter. Work the contacts you make while you're doing that, and see if you can make a connection with the city museum or an art/art history magazine, for more practical work experience.

What to do now that you've graduated, having done none of the suggested things? Live with your parents while you get some intern experience relevant to what you want to do. Then apply for paying jobs in the field, once you have a little experience, and someone who can write you a recommendation.
You're suggesting that undergraduates actually do something to help themselves? What a concept.

I would add: Go to your professors' office hours. They mostly just sit there, wondering if anyone will show up. Get hired as a research assistant. Professors have connections. Use the connections to get hired when you graduate.

I majored in urban studies which I of course regarded as a generic degree that would help me get into a good graduate school. The courses were easy, my grades were excellent, and I went to the University of Chicago graduate school of business, which was the basis for making a small fortune (most of my classmates, more ambitious than I, made large ones).
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:51 PM
 
719 posts, read 1,050,980 times
Reputation: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I'm familiar with Upstate, though I think it was still called USC-S and was still a two year school when I joined the service. Even applied for a position there once. I love the upstate region and would like to retire back there if I could.
Yes it was known as USC-Spartanburg (USCS) and it became a 4 year school in 75. The name was changed to USC Upstate in 2004. Upstate is a great school .The professors know their stuff and they are a diverse group from all over the country. Upstate now has over 5500 students. Just curious how long you were in the area? It has grown a lot here since the 70s and it's still rural but just not as rural as it was.
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