Is going to College even worth it anymore, with the amount of debt people owe after they graduate? (high school, best)
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That depends on your options without college. Mine were limited so yes college was worth it even though I'll never make as much as say someone who started on an assembly line the day I started college in my lifetime. You see I didn't have the option of that job. My options were dead end jobs.
Don't bet on it. Most manufacturing jobs available today to people without specific skills (welders, tool and die makers, pipefitters, etc) pay between $10 and $15/hour these days which is the $20-30k range, and these workers are under the constant threat of seeing their jobs automated or off-shored. The days of semi-literate assembly line workers making $50-70k a year are fast disappearing if they still exist at all any more, and usually where such well paying manufacturing jobs do exist, most are for machine operators in automated plants that produce as much product with 20 workers as they did with 200 workers thirty years ago.
Google Scott Burns...assetbuilder wealth advisory site
He is long time investment analyst, degree from MIT, several books on the economy and investing...
Has several articles about college value vs debt that might impact future
His take is that there are ways to get an education that don't require massive debt and that some skills don't require college and are proof against being outsourced by moving jobs overseas...like real-skill trades...
As a retired English teacher in district with excellent IB program and commercial trades school that can't handle the number of kids wanting to get into the cosmetology or food trades...
A good district needs to have both avenues and needs to have current skills (coding/IT) as well as more traditional paths...
It is certainly possible for people to gain skills that allow someone to support a family by not going to college--even a college degree wo any "real" skills don't mean a grad is guaranteed a secure future...
My son has an MA in Creative Writing...he has managed to have a career after teaching (which wasn't for him) in curriculum design...but it would have been much better if he had gotten his advanced degree IN curriculum design area...but at time he thought was was getting PhD and college teaching---that is true route to minimum wage/part-time work in current higher education arena...
Most colleges are not party schools. Sounds as though many of you are listening to too much Fox news.
Well, Fox News isn't the only news outlet preaching the doctrine of "don't bother to go to college, there are plenty of good paying jobs out there for you". CNN has been on this bandwagon for a while, too. The fact is, the job outlook for people with only a high school diploma and no special job skills is pretty bleak.
I think that Jukesgrrl is correct with the observation that too many students treat college like an extension of high school rather than as an opportunity to gain knowledge/develop skills to improve their futures. It's these students whom we hear about being jobless and in debt with "useless" degrees after college graduation. We don't hear about the kids who didn't party hearty for four years, who got As and Bs in their classes, who worked summers in jobs related to their fields of interest, who got glowing recommendations from their major profs, who not only got internships but impressed their supervisors, and then got hired at nice salaries even before they got their diplomas.
Plain and simple, like most things, you get out of college what you put into it, that's true whether you pursue a STEM degree or study Art History.
Google Scott Burns...assetbuilder wealth advisory site
He is long time investment analyst, degree from MIT, several books on the economy and investing...
Has several articles about college value vs debt that might impact future
His take is that there are ways to get an education that don't require massive debt and that some skills don't require college and are proof against being outsourced by moving jobs overseas...like real-skill trades...
As a retired English teacher in district with excellent IB program and commercial trades school that can't handle the number of kids wanting to get into the cosmetology or food trades...
A good district needs to have both avenues and needs to have current skills (coding/IT) as well as more traditional paths...
It is certainly possible for people to gain skills that allow someone to support a family by not going to college--even a college degree wo any "real" skills don't mean a grad is guaranteed a secure future...
My son has an MA in Creative Writing...he has managed to have a career after teaching (which wasn't for him) in curriculum design...but it would have been much better if he had gotten his advanced degree IN curriculum design area...but at time he thought was was getting PhD and college teaching---that is true route to minimum wage/part-time work in current higher education arena...
I agree with much of what you wrote but the jobs students studying "cosmetology or food trades" can get pay in the $20-25K range. Taking these classes for free in a public HS is a lot smarter than paying big $$ to some for-profit outfit but that's about all. A small percentage of these students may someday own their own businesses and prosper but the rest are going to live in near-poverty unless they go into other fields.
Some people actually go to college to get an education, not to acquire a vocation skill.
This is gospel truth. If somebody is passionate about art or music, good pay is not going to be the reward they seek. A degree will get them closer to their creative goals, but money is probably secondary. Additionally, there are tons of very important jobs that are only accessible with a college degree. A cancer researcher or a social worker aren't looking for big paychecks, but their jobs are of immense importance, and they are only attainable with education.
Think of it this way - "worth it" means different things for different people. It's not always about $$$.
Beware of scams by even the best schools. A scam occurs when schools promote worthless majors in terms of financial success, provide majors lacking essential training for the new market(lacking current skill sets) and provide false market information on the demand of what is being taught or offered.
I think another problem is that people rush off to college right after high school without a clue what they want to do. This is why those who say to go to a 2 year CC to get started is a really good idea. You are getting college credits, and you're also going to get an idea of some subjects you would like to study.
Frankly, I think if people don't want to do the CC route, (which, why NOT?), they should wait a year or two before going to college after graduating HS. Take that time to really figure out what you might like to do, take the time to figure out what your degree can get you in the real working world, take that time to figure out several ways that you can pay for it, how you can make it as cheap as possible for yourself, etc.
We've been told our entire lives that what we do is: go to school, graduate, go to college, graduate, get a job, get married, buy a house, have kids, die.
It's the same that has been said for a very long time, and people just "do" what they have been told they are "supposed" to do without thinking ahead. "Oh, go to college. Well, I can't afford it. Oh, loans, great, now I can go to college." That's as far ahead as the thinking goes.
We need to start teaching these kids while they are still in high school, and to be frank, I think a lot of "career counselors" in the high schools need to be fired. They are NOT doing their jobs.
I notice my local public university, FIU, is about $24000 for a four year degree. Has both a number of campuses and online classes for local students. Reasonable price and no reason one cannot work and attend university at the same instance. Then there are certain tuititon reduction benefits for both high flyers and historically disadvantaged students.
I notice my local public university, FIU, is about $24000 for a four year degree. Has both a number of campuses and online classes for local students. Reasonable price and no reason one cannot work and attend university at the same instance. Then there are certain tuititon reduction benefits for both high flyers and historically disadvantaged students.
Yes, the state university I went to is now about 26k for 4 years. In-State tuition. That's not terrible. Especially if you major in a STEM field and network and make some connections through internships.
Add in the fact that you can go to a community college for 2 years and you'll only be in debt around 15k.
15k was how much my 4 years at the State School I graduated from almost 15 years ago.
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Although I think schooling should be free for all, I also think that over the past few years the price of college has been a bit overblown. Meaning, you have people getting into the college of their dreams, and paying for it is an afterthought. Then the person getting the degree majors in something non-viable and then they complain that they're 100k in debt and unemployable.
The blame lies all around, and I think the main part is the lack of knowledge of the system. And the lack of good counseling given to young prospective students.
A bit of hand-holding and guidance at the beginning could save a lot of entitled hand-wringing after those 4 years.
My advice:
If you major in English, then you need to network even harder than the STEM major. Go to a community college first to feel it out. Transfer to a state school, OR a higher tier university ONLY IF you have 1. the future ability to pay it back, 2. You're getting assistance/scholarships.
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To respond the OP's points:
1. A lot of us have shown that college can be attended for under 30k.
2. You don't need a new car when you graduate. You could get a more reliable one, or you can fix up the current car with your new job.
3. Let's assume you follow the advice of transferring and end up only spending 20k in student loans. Repayment could be anywhere from $500-$200 a month. Assuming you make 40k out of college (which is around the average) you'd have around $1800 after your student loan debt.
4. Live with a roommate, even at $1000 (avg. rent) shared (or a studio) you have about $800 left over. This is where you have to be frugal. That means no new car, eating cheaply, cheap cell phone plan, hopefully you don't have any other debt. Put the remaining $100 in a savings account for emergencies. Start building credit. This will be done for at least a couple of years.
4b. Move back home with parents if that's an option.
5. If you're not incompetent or working at a dead end job, you will move up. It may be slow but it also may be fast. Within 8 years, or before your 30's you should be making about double what you are now.
6. At this point (and even 3-4 years into your career) your college degree is effectively worthless not because of its actual value, but rather your value to your employer and future employers. Your experience at your job is worth more and is only propped up by your degree.
7. Life happens, but you're also not crippled by student loan debt as we've been hearing for the past 10 years.
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If any or all of that advice is taken, no matter the degree you should be OK. Location and other factors vary greatly.
TL;DR College can be expensive, or it can be cheap. It is still worth it, if you know what to do and how to do it.
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