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I don't see why one needs a degree to work certain jobs at an insurance company, work in sales or middle management. An employer could train someone for those positions also.
Not quite the same.
The issue there as high schools vary, employers ended up requiring candidates to have BA's to ensure a certain degree of literacy.
But if it's just a manual labor job, anyone with a high school diploma or GED should be trainable by the JOB.
Sure, they could. Hospitals used to train their own nurses at least as late as the 80s. Employers don't do their own training these days.
Oh, heck, they could even teach basic networking and coding the way the military does. But they don't.
States set licensing and education requirements for nurses.
There is no specific license for a typical construction job. Skilled jobs like plumber or electrician are licensed (and you have to go to school for them). But for a basic construction job? There's no licensing requirement, and you could be trained on the job.
The issue there as high schools vary, employers ended up requiring candidates to have BA's to ensure a certain degree of literacy.
But if it's just a manual labor job, anyone with a high school diploma or GED should be trainable by the JOB.
So you need a BA to prove you're literate? Just wow.
Not everyone who graduates high school is illiterate and business can still train people without a degree for those positions I mentioned. If one cannot do the job it will be come evident soon enough. Also a BA/BS won't guarantee someone can do a specific job.
States set licensing and education requirements for nurses.
There is no specific license for a typical construction job. Skilled jobs like plumber or electrician are licensed (and you have to go to school for them). But for a basic construction job? There's no licensing requirement, and you could be trained on the job.
You still need to know basic math skills, how to read a tape measure, some geometry and algebra, weight conversions. I don't think they will teach those basic skills on the job. If you think high school is not teaching people to read then why would you think its up to par on math. Not everyone who works a manual labor job is a knuckle dragging idiot.
And that's not happening with the counseling that teenagers (I emphasize: Teenagers) get from the adults around them is essentially, "Get any bachelor's degree any way you can, anything else is a booby prize."
Hopefully this is changing, When my cousin went to University and chose to major in Anthropology (2009-2012), he was told point blank by one the career adviser that "Majoring in Anthropology can be a tough sell to employers". Granted this is only one example but at least it is better then being fed the line "Oh employers love anthropology majors because of their writing ability and communication skills blah blah blah...". At the very least there was some realism instead of the tired old "Just graduate with a degree and you will find a job".
At the high school level, I don't know, it has been a very long time since high school. However when I was in high school, trades where only pushed/discussed with the students who where not interested in college or who the guidance councilors did not see as smart enough for college. So I guess you could say that trade and vocational schools where "2nd class" when compared to University.
Hopefully this is changing, When my cousin went to University and chose to major in Anthropology (2009-2012), he was told point blank by one the career adviser that "Majoring in Anthropology can be a tough sell to employers". Granted this is only one example but at least it is better then being fed the line "Oh employers love anthropology majors because of their writing ability and communication skills blah blah blah...". At the very least there was some realism instead of the tired old "Just graduate with a degree and you will find a job".
At the high school level, I don't know, it has been a very long time since high school. However when I was in high school, trades where only pushed/discussed with the students who where not interested in college or who the guidance councilors did not see as smart enough for college. So I guess you could say that trade and vocational schools where "2nd class" when compared to University.
It's a shame if this attitude is held by many students who do not opt for work in the trades/vocational training route. There is no shame in choosing a career that best matches your interest and aptitude, that provides a decent, honest living wage (which is subjective, I know, but needs to also be realistic). Many of my family members have done so. They did not have any interest nor aptitude for my chosen, university-trained, career path (pre-kids) - and that is fine! To each their own.
I certainly felt no shame - but instead much pride - in working those factory jobs in the paper printing plant, Nordic Track assembly plant, tomato canning plant, during the course of my route to obtaining my education for my chosen career. I could probably have done without some of those paper cuts, though, but my cool co-workers made up for it. All those jobs contributed in one way or another to my ability to maximize my education. I don't think I would have benefitted as much had I spent that time working some soft office clerical job for my family business (if I had one), as my high school friend had done when we both spent the summer looking for jobs to help pay for our education.
Remember, vocational jobs, as with all jobs, are constantly changing to the needs and job opportunities available to a changing society, so not all will be what is deemed "undesirable" today. And even then, what is undesirable for one may not be for another.
You still need to know basic math skills, how to read a tape measure, some geometry and algebra, weight conversions. I don't think they will teach those basic skills on the job. If you think high school is not teaching people to read then why would you think its up to par on math. Not everyone who works a manual labor job is a knuckle dragging idiot.
All this stuff is high school level math, and yes it is taught in high school. Whether students did the work in high school is a different matter. I don't think everyone who works in manual labor is a knuckle dragging idiot but if you graduated high school without knowing how to do weight conversions and basic math you're a knuckle dragging idiot.
Much of the labor in construction is immigrant, if not illegal immigrant and quite clearly these people did not go to trade school.
Maybe for certain specialized jobs it's needed, but for many construction jobs it isn't. I've seen day laborers literally stand around in places where they could be hired for construction jobs and that is literally hiring people OFF the STREET!
So you need a BA to prove you're literate? Just wow.
Not everyone who graduates high school is illiterate and business can still train people without a degree for those positions I mentioned. If one cannot do the job it will be come evident soon enough. Also a BA/BS won't guarantee someone can do a specific job.
Yes, for higher levels of literacy. Paralegals are law firms are glorified secretaries. But they have to read complex legal documents and law firms do not higher someone out of high school to do this kind of work. Businesses are not going to invest that much money in training people unqualified people, or that kind of risk.
I never accused high school graduates of being illiterate, but many of them would have insufficient literacy to deal with the legal paperwork.
Yes, for higher levels of literacy. Paralegals are law firms are glorified secretaries. But they have to read complex legal documents and law firms do not higher someone out of high school to do this kind of work. Businesses are not going to invest that much money in training people unqualified people, or that kind of risk.
I never accused high school graduates of being illiterate, but many of them would have insufficient literacy to deal with the legal paperwork.
States set licensing and education requirements for nurses.
There is no specific license for a typical construction job. Skilled jobs like plumber or electrician are licensed (and you have to go to school for them). But for a basic construction job? There's no licensing requirement, and you could be trained on the job.
A licensing requirement does not per se require schooling; OJT can prepare someone for a licensing. Two other examples are barbering and cosmetology, which have long, long required licensing in most states and have also had schools available, but could also be trained through apprenticeships.
My point is that for trades there is no hard and fast line between formal schools and OJT. The end point is certification, and a person can become certifiable by either means. Schools, however, do tend to be more efficient in time and probably (but not necessarily) more thorough in meeting the certification requirements.
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All those jobs contributed in one way or another to my ability to maximize my education. I don't think I would have benefitted as much had I spent that time working some soft office clerical job for my family business (if I had one), as my high school friend had done when we both spent the summer looking for jobs to help pay for our education.
