College Degree not cutting it as way out of poverty for many (public schools, pay)
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I went to an Ivy League undergrad, and going to an Ivy League for grad school. Family money has everything to do with it. It can pay for the best educations and catapult you into the best social networks. Very important for various aspects of the corporate sector (especially Wall Street and various media like film, tv, advertising) and politics.
Look at the universities that top politicians and CEOs went to.
Your world is not the entire world.
Even a state school can be costly for some people, and there are parents who cannot afford to send their kids to a state school. And not everyone gets scholarships. And even if one does get scholarships, classes can be free but one has to live somewhere, eat, and have money for other living expenses that scholarships won't cover.
If you don't have family money/support you'll need the government to pay for everything via the GI Bill, as veterans are the ones who get the best support going to college.
I'm pretty sure I already posted this in this thread or one similar, but I think it's worth repeating. I recently attended a conference and met some students from two local state schools- schools known for being mostly first generation and drawing heavily from small, rural WI towns (read: population bases where the main industries are agriculture, manufacturing, construction, etc). The kids I met with were very pleasant, and I'm sure very hardworking, but most of them just gave me blank looks when I asked them if they had resumes, LinkedIn profiles, thought about internships for the summer, etc. And these were primarily sophomores, juniors, and seniors, so those are things that really should have been done by that point.
So while the stereotypical "daddy got me a job" idea may not apply, I absolutely think (actually, know) that growing up in a home with college-educated, professional parents, or in an area where that is common, and where the parents know proper interview skills, how to write a good resume/cover letter, how to network, and the importance of internships and can pass those things onto their kids is huge.
So while the stereotypical "daddy got me a job" idea may not apply, I absolutely think (actually, know) that growing up in a home with college-educated, professional parents, or in an area where that is common, and where the parents know proper interview skills, how to write a good resume/cover letter, how to network, and the importance of internships and can pass those things onto their kids is huge.
College-educated parents obviously do support their children's education more. However, I think a lot of people overestimate how much help this really is.
A great deal of what a student needs to do to become successful in school and over the course of their career can be self-taught. People here are not giving credit for how much more common that is.
College-educated parents obviously do support their children's education more. However, I think a lot of people overestimate how much help this really is.
A great deal of what a student needs to do to become successful in school and over the course of their career can be self-taught. People here are not giving credit for how much more common that is.
Many students do not have parents who are good role models. Students usually don't develop a love of reading if they have never seen their parents read a book or newspaper, and there are no books in the home. Learning starts in the home and some students start out at a severe disadvantage and are never able to catch up.
In Las Vegas, sometimes parents encourage their sons to drop out of high school to work as a parking valet on The Strip. They can make $80,000 per year in cash tips. Not bad when you're 17 years old. Later on, they can be waiters in high end Las Vegas celebrity-chef restaurants and earn $120,000 per year or more.
First of all, I'd like to see some documentation of this. It sounds fairly unbelievable to me for parents to ecourage kids to drop out of high school for any reason whatsoever, short of maybe illness or family emergency. After all, those jobs will always be out there. The tips to be made valet parking sound inflated too, as does the restaurant thing.
I went to an Ivy League undergrad, and going to an Ivy League for grad school. Family money has everything to do with it. It can pay for the best educations and catapult you into the best social networks. Very important for various aspects of the corporate sector (especially Wall Street and various media like film, tv, advertising) and politics.
Look at the universities that top politicians and CEOs went to.
Your world is not the entire world.
Even a state school can be costly for some people, and there are parents who cannot afford to send their kids to a state school. And not everyone gets scholarships. And even if one does get scholarships, classes can be free but one has to live somewhere, eat, and have money for other living expenses that scholarships won't cover.
If you don't have family money/support you'll need the government to pay for everything via the GI Bill, as veterans are the ones who get the best support going to college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
A poster accused me of being out of touch because I mentioned my Ivy League background. That is not being out of touch because I also mentioned there are many people who cannot afford state schools as well, and not everyone gets scholarships.
In fact I'm sure financial considerations are likely a big factor in the high college drop out rate. A big chunk of the country has to work as college students, and if you weren't a good student in high school working during college isn't a good idea at all. Those students really would need to focus on their studies, but they can't do to work.
Community colleges in NYC like LaGuardia Community College have graduation rates of 11 percent.
This is funny. First, we hear from you that one doesn't need to go to college, now you're saying you have to go to top universities to become a "top" politician or CEO. Just how many people are going to become "top" politicians anyway? How realistic is it to say "I'm going to be my state's senator, or the POTUS"? And for Pity's sake, one of Colorado's senators went to Colorado State U and the U of Colorado law school.
Your world is not the entire world, either. There's a big world out there outside of NYC.
I have a hard time with someone who is Ivy League educated thinking college is so unimportant and that it's OK to work a minimum wage job for 50 years. I think the focus should be more on how to pay for college, rather than how it's impossible to do so. Anyone who lives in a major metro area, which is most of the population of the US, has a choice of probably at least 4-6 four year colleges where they can attend and live at home. Going to CC for the first year is also an option. (I don't recommend doing it for two years; you will probably lose some credits when you transfer.) BTW, CC graduation rates are not a good measure b/c many students transfer out w/o "graduating" from CC, e.g. w/o fulfilling the requirements of an AA or AS degree. Student loans, while much maligned of late, are a way of financing part of one's education.
According to this article, here are some main reasons for dropping out of college: "Today's U.S. college dropouts are more likely to be male (57 percent of college degrees go to women), the Harvard study shows. They are less likely to be pursuing careers as lawyers, doctors or architects, where higher education has a clear correlation with obtaining a job. Reasons for dropping out included: not being prepared for the rigors of academic work; inability to cope with the competing demands of study, family and jobs; and cost, the Harvard report says." Why college students stop short of a degree | Reuters
According to this article, here are some main reasons for dropping out of college: "Today's U.S. college dropouts are more likely to be male (57 percent of college degrees go to women), the Harvard study shows. They are less likely to be pursuing careers as lawyers, doctors or architects, where higher education has a clear correlation with obtaining a job. Reasons for dropping out included: not being prepared for the rigors of academic work; inability to cope with the competing demands of study, family and jobs; and cost, the Harvard report says." Why college students stop short of a degree | Reuters
How could they miss the real number one reason for dropping out of college both back in the 70s when I was in college, and today: too much partying!
I'm pretty sure I already posted this in this thread or one similar, but I think it's worth repeating. I recently attended a conference and met some students from two local state schools- schools known for being mostly first generation and drawing heavily from small, rural WI towns (read: population bases where the main industries are agriculture, manufacturing, construction, etc). The kids I met with were very pleasant, and I'm sure very hardworking, but most of them just gave me blank looks when I asked them if they had resumes, LinkedIn profiles, thought about internships for the summer, etc. And these were primarily sophomores, juniors, and seniors, so those are things that really should have been done by that point.
So while the stereotypical "daddy got me a job" idea may not apply, I absolutely think (actually, know) that growing up in a home with college-educated, professional parents, or in an area where that is common, and where the parents know proper interview skills, how to write a good resume/cover letter, how to network, and the importance of internships and can pass those things onto their kids is huge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
College-educated parents obviously do support their children's education more. However, I think a lot of people overestimate how much help this really is.
A great deal of what a student needs to do to become successful in school and over the course of their career can be self-taught. People here are not giving credit for how much more common that is.
First I'd don't think that college sophomores, maybe even juniors, need to be writing professional resumes or on LinkedIn. You don't really start applying for professional jobs until your senior year. In addition, most employers want to see that you're actually going to get the degree. Not every job requires an internship. A few years ago, internships were the "holy grail". Now, I'm not hearing as much about them. A lot of internships were/are little more than unpaid clerical jobs. Most colleges also have career centers where resume-writing and the like are taught; they sometimes even help you write them. "Networking", as I said earlier, is not so important in tech and health care, who do seem to hire people more on their skills. Plus, you do form your professional networks such as they are, in college. I don't know many parents who taught their kids interviewing skills, or even how to write a resume/cover letter.
Secondly, I find it very hard to believe that these students had never heard of LinkedIn and other job-search networks. I agree with BigCityDreamer that a lot of people overestimate how much help this really is. As a parent myself, I've seen how some of this stuff changes over time. What I thought was a good resume/cover letter may not be what employers are looking for these days. A lot of parents haven't looked for a job in 20-30 years!
Many students do not have parents who are good role models. Students usually don't develop a love of reading if they have never seen their parents read a book or newspaper, and there are no books in the home. Learning starts in the home and some students start out at a severe disadvantage and are never able to catch up.
This is also true. If a student's parents never read or read books to their children, the kid may be a a severe disadvantage. The type of parent you mention may not be the type to help kids with their homework or get tutors for them either.
Added to this depending on the parent, they may have either low levels of education or may not be English speakers.
A lot of different family background factors matter.
If the parents are poor and the children aren't property fed, lack of proper nutrition can affect one's ability to process information.
First I'd don't think that college sophomores, maybe even juniors, need to be writing professional resumes or on LinkedIn. You don't really start applying for professional jobs until your senior year. In addition, most employers want to see that you're actually going to get the degree. Not every job requires an internship. A few years ago, internships were the "holy grail". Now, I'm not hearing as much about them. A lot of internships were/are little more than unpaid clerical jobs. Most colleges also have career centers where resume-writing and the like are taught; they sometimes even help you write them. "Networking", as I said earlier, is not so important in tech and health care, who do seem to hire people more on their skills. Plus, you do form your professional networks such as they are, in college. I don't know many parents who taught their kids interviewing skills, or even how to write a resume/cover letter.
Secondly, I find it very hard to believe that these students had never heard of LinkedIn and other job-search networks. I agree with BigCityDreamer that a lot of people overestimate how much help this really is. As a parent myself, I've seen how some of this stuff changes over time. What I thought was a good resume/cover letter may not be what employers are looking for these days. A lot of parents haven't looked for a job in 20-30 years!
If your parent is well connected within a field who needs a resume or a cover letter?
Healthcare is a field where you have to be licensed, so social networks alone obviously can't do it because you have to have the educational background to get your license to practice. With that said, if one is going out for top positions in healthcare things like references from major medical researchers or institutions can matter a great deal.
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