Working Full-Time and Attending College - Not Learning A Thing (computer science, nurses)
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That's what I read! Thanks. Yeah, there is no way I can do that now. I'm taking 10 credits.
That's a lot. Figuring class time and the workload outside of class, it's the equivalent of taking a second full-time job. It's going to take some time to get in the groove. My first semester back I definitely bit off more than I could chew: I registered for 16 credits; mind you, I had 2 little ones at home and another in school. I vastly underestimated the amount of time I would need to put in. A lot of very late nights, early mornings, taking tests with a nursing baby in my lap. That whole semester is a blur, but it got done. And every semester thereafter I would go into panic-mode the first few weeks, and by midterms start to mellow out, lol.
To some extent, learning is work. Not all of it is leisurely reflection.
However, to "enjoy" learning, you need time to actually think. I mean stop and think for an hour or two to mull over what you read, search out the source you saw in a footnote at the library.... that kind of thing. It takes time. If you're working 40+ hours on top of trying to learn, that contemplative process goes out the window and you have to prioritize & optimize your study time by focusing on passing the test or completing whatever the course requirements are. You don't have time for much else.
I agree that the elderly people who go back to college are the few who 1) have the free time & money to do that and 2) have the wherewithal thanks to their years to know they should do that.
Traditional students might have the time if they are not working, but many students work. The ones that don't are easily distracted by partying, alcohol, sports, clubs, the opposite sex, whatever else distracts them in the rush to figure their lives and identity out.
Some of the problem is that we've sucked the joy out of higher education by tying it so tightly to jobs. So people are stressed, stressed, stressed about it... because they (sometimes rightly) think that their entire future is on the line.
Oh, and by the way, don't listen to the haters about your public sector job. If they are so upset, they need to bring it to their legislators or whoever is in charge of all that. I'm going to assume that you fulfill the duties in your job description and are compensated according to whatever contract has been worked out & agreed upon. You are providing a service & are being compensated for that service that has been approved by the public as manifested through their representatives to be paid for from the public treasury. It amazes me that people feel they are somehow not in control of all this. Some people like to get on their high horse like their jobs are more important or something.
Last edited by redguard57; 09-28-2016 at 08:42 PM..
To some extent, learning is work. Not all of it is leisurely reflection.
However, to "enjoy" learning, you need time to actually think. I mean stop and think for an hour or two to mull over what you read, search out the source you saw in a footnote at the library.... that kind of thing. It takes time. If you're working 40+ hours on top of trying to learn, that contemplative process goes out the window and you have to prioritize & optimize your study time by focusing on passing the test or completing whatever the course requirements are. You don't have time for much else.
Yep. I found this out going back as a middle-aged adult with a family for my graduate degree. I no longer have the luxury of "just" being a student. That was the stuff of undergrad, only. I still greatly enjoy the learning I do in the classroom, practicum, internship, etc., but the homework (apart from the research/writing, which I love) and any studying is less gratifying and more just hoops to be jumped through.There is little time for the ivory tower as an adult learner, unless you are working in academia.
Quote:
Oh, and by the way, don't listen to the haters about your public sector job. If they are so upset, they need to bring it to their legislators or whoever is in charge of all that. I'm going to assume that you fulfill the duties in your job description and are compensated according to whatever contract has been worked out & agreed upon. You are providing a service & are being compensated for that service that has been approved by the public as manifested through their representatives to be paid for from the public treasury. It amazes me that people feel they are somehow not in control of all this. Some people like to get on their high horse like their jobs are more important or something.
That's a lot. Figuring class time and the workload outside of class, it's the equivalent of taking a second full-time job. It's going to take some time to get in the groove. My first semester back I definitely bit off more than I could chew: I registered for 16 credits; mind you, I had 2 little ones at home and another in school. I vastly underestimated the amount of time I would need to put in. A lot of very late nights, early mornings, taking tests with a nursing baby in my lap. That whole semester is a blur, but it got done. And every semester thereafter I would go into panic-mode the first few weeks, and by midterms start to mellow out, lol.
Yes, I feel as if I work two full-time jobs. I would not take so many classes at the same time if it weren't for the G.I. Bill's ridiculous stipulations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
To some extent, learning is work. Not all of it is leisurely reflection.
However, to "enjoy" learning, you need time to actually think. I mean stop and think for an hour or two to mull over what you read, search out the source you saw in a footnote at the library.... that kind of thing. It takes time. If you're working 40+ hours on top of trying to learn, that contemplative process goes out the window and you have to prioritize & optimize your study time by focusing on passing the test or completing whatever the course requirements are. You don't have time for much else.
I agree that the elderly people who go back to college are the few who 1) have the free time & money to do that and 2) have the wherewithal thanks to their years to know they should do that.
Traditional students might have the time if they are not working, but many students work. The ones that don't are easily distracted by partying, alcohol, sports, clubs, the opposite sex, whatever else distracts them in the rush to figure their lives and identity out.
Some of the problem is that we've sucked the joy out of higher education by tying it so tightly to jobs. So people are stressed, stressed, stressed about it... because they (sometimes rightly) think that their entire future is on the line.
Oh, and by the way, don't listen to the haters about your public sector job. If they are so upset, they need to bring it to their legislators or whoever is in charge of all that. I'm going to assume that you fulfill the duties in your job description and are compensated according to whatever contract has been worked out & agreed upon. You are providing a service & are being compensated for that service that has been approved by the public as manifested through their representatives to be paid for from the public treasury. It amazes me that people feel they are somehow not in control of all this. Some people like to get on their high horse like their jobs are more important or something.
Great post.
I do barely have time to reflect on what I have learned. TabulaRosa was correct, though - I have retained some things.
Re: the haters - I can only assume that it is severe envy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapdad00
OP, first, thank you for your service.
Re: the leave comment. Do you have the option to purchase short or long term disability insurance? I agree you should use your leave for restorative purposes. STD/LTD are for extended health absences. Your goal now is to get through this program. If stress caused you to struggle in the past, you need to take steps to reduce it now, even if that is taking a morning or a day off to sleep in every week to get back in alignment.
Thanks cheapdad (love the username!). Yes, they do offer STD/LTD. I am trying to reduce the stress so that I won't get sick again. We will see what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
Can you negotiate with your boss to work less than 40 hours while in school? Given a civil service job, the rules may be so damn hidebound that it can't be done.
On my job it's quite possible to back off to as little as 20 hours per week for the sake of school - of course a 20 hour week results in half your normal pay, if you can swing that.
Beyond that, the same old tired advice - try to get some exercise, try to eat right, try to get enough sleep. I know you can't do all these to the 9's, but do what you can.
If you have an SO, ask them for help/support.
Technically, yes I can transfer to PT - but it would not be in my best interest to do so. Civil Service Rules dictate that there has to be an opening, etc. etc. I would lose my pension, medical, etc. And I would no longer have union protection. Also, we are talking about a year. I would lose one day of seniority for every day that I was PT.
Yep. I found this out going back as a middle-aged adult with a family for my graduate degree. I no longer have the luxury of "just" being a student. That was the stuff of undergrad, only. I still greatly enjoy the learning I do in the classroom, practicum, internship, etc., but the homework (apart from the research/writing, which I love) and any studying is less gratifying and more just hoops to be jumped through.There is little time for the ivory tower as an adult learner, unless you are working in academia.
Yep.
Let that crap roll right off.
This. I don't have kids, but going back to school on top of a full-time job and other commitments is a lot of work. My entire program is online, which helps only in the fact that I don't have to physically go to a classroom. However, I have to spend almost the entire evening after work and much of the weekends shut up in another room, doing homework and projects. Some of the projects are, if not FUN, at least valuable learning experiences. I've had more than one light-bulb moment. The homework for my business calculus class? It's a pain in the ass and I'm learning to memorize the rules more than actually learning the details of the subject, but I really don't care. I just need the pre-req. I haven't used it in the first 13 years of my career, so I won't lose any sleep if I don't master the subject.
OP, ignore the people who are accusing you of being lazy or whiny because in another time and place, someone else did more. Some people actually need sleep, and not everyone has the ability to just quit their job and focus on school full time. It sounds like you are doing this for your career, and I very much understand why you can't make changes to your work schedule. My employer will be reimbursing me for tuition, so I can't just quit either.
Just take a deep breath, do what you can to eat right and minimize your stress, and know that in a couple months the semester will be done.
I'm not sure I learned a thing when I did my MS between how awful the program was and how much time I spent running around---I worked FT, was preparing crap for work every day and on the weekends and I lived in one borough, worked in another and my school was in a third borough no where near home. My commute home could be 1.5 hours by train. I'm more than glad I didn't pay for it.
For my undergrad, I don't recall spending three hours per credit on classes. Yikes. Most of my classes I did the minimum. I haven't loved school since the fifth grade. Some classes required a lot more work for barely anymore credits---A&P, for example, was like studying for two separate classes entirely yet I only got 4.5 credits for it.
GL OP. Hope everything works out for you and I hope that you have a better experience sooner than later.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I see no one sympathizing.... Edu + working FT = extreme time commitment.
Millions have gone before you, millions will follow.
Many will succeed, many will fail, most will require an "extended" program
(Btw: Thx for all the reps)
14 yrs in higher edu for me while working FT and supporting a family on a single hourly income, (and running a farm and caring for a disabled parent in my free time). It was not at all tough compared to the role most people in the world serve. Daily scrounging for enough food to keep their kids alive till tomorrow. Piece of cake. I eat well, as do my kids. I am very grateful for that.
This. I don't have kids, but going back to school on top of a full-time job and other commitments is a lot of work. My entire program is online, which helps only in the fact that I don't have to physically go to a classroom. However, I have to spend almost the entire evening after work and much of the weekends shut up in another room, doing homework and projects. Some of the projects are, if not FUN, at least valuable learning experiences. I've had more than one light-bulb moment. The homework for my business calculus class? It's a pain in the ass and I'm learning to memorize the rules more than actually learning the details of the subject, but I really don't care. I just need the pre-req. I haven't used it in the first 13 years of my career, so I won't lose any sleep if I don't master the subject.
OP, ignore the people who are accusing you of being lazy or whiny because in another time and place, someone else did more. Some people actually need sleep, and not everyone has the ability to just quit their job and focus on school full time. It sounds like you are doing this for your career, and I very much understand why you can't make changes to your work schedule. My employer will be reimbursing me for tuition, so I can't just quit either.
Just take a deep breath, do what you can to eat right and minimize your stress, and know that in a couple months the semester will be done.
Thank you!!
Online classes require more of time commitment IMO. The professor makes up for lack of face-to-face interaction by assigning more assignments, discussions, and group projects (which I HATE with a passion).
It is difficult to ignore the foolishness, but I will try. I will picture a child jumping up and down for attention - screaming "Look at me!!! Look at me!!!"
I think that the minimum age to post on this forum is 13 - it shows sometimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by city living
I'm not sure I learned a thing when I did my MS between how awful the program was and how much time I spent running around---I worked FT, was preparing crap for work every day and on the weekends and I lived in one borough, worked in another and my school was in a third borough no where near home. My commute home could be 1.5 hours by train. I'm more than glad I didn't pay for it.
For my undergrad, I don't recall spending three hours per credit on classes. Yikes. Most of my classes I did the minimum. I haven't loved school since the fifth grade. Some classes required a lot more work for barely anymore credits---A&P, for example, was like studying for two separate classes entirely yet I only got 4.5 credits for it.
GL OP. Hope everything works out for you and I hope that you have a better experience sooner than later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
To reiterate, these were graduate program guidelines, not undergrad.
Thanks! My school does recommend three hours per credit for undergrad. I have read that elsewhere also.
Last edited by mochamajesty; 09-30-2016 at 07:06 AM..
Reason: Eliminate weird spacing
Online classes require more of time commitment IMO. The professor makes up for lack of face-to-face interaction by assigning more assignments, discussions, and group projects (which I HATE with a passion).
It is difficult to ignore the foolishness, but I will try. I will picture a child jumping up and down for attention - screaming "Look at me!!! Look at me!!!"
I think that the minimum age to post on this forum is 13 - it shows sometimes.
Thanks! My school does recommend three hours per credit for undergrad. I have read that elsewhere also.
Yes, I just finished my group project. Thankfully, I had a great group so it went well, but there's never a guarantee of that.
I was told to expect 10-15 hours of work a week per class, which works out to roughly 3-5 per credit. It's possible to fit that in, but some things have to give sometimes.
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Some classes required a lot more work for barely anymore credits---A&P, for example, was like studying for two separate classes entirely yet I only got 4.5 credits for it.
