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I was a highly ranked runner coming out of high school, and I found out that there are very few scholarships available for distance runners because college track coaches generally try to land one superstar sprinter that can do four events. I stayed friends with the state champion 3200 runner in Ohio and he told me that he only got 1/2 scholarship offers that would have ended up costing him more than the deal he got with financial aid at a small liberal arts dIII school.
Aside from football, basketball, and baseball, there are very few full ride scholarships for other men's sports.
Even for football, basketball and baseball, outside of the schools you see on TV, very few programs are fully funded, especially when you get into the smaller DI and most DII schools so getting that full ride is rare there too.
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Originally Posted by crownheightsnative
The most glaring parts of the article to me:
#1) Thousands of dollars a year, including some years of over $10k
Someone already mentioned this, but this is clearly money spent better in a college savings from strictly a ROI pov. Enough to attend UVA w/out an athletic obligation.
#2) For most (not all) athletes, spring if your junior year is simply TOO LATE for serious recruiting.
#3) They mentioned 170k/8m which is the "2% rule"... I always thought this was a 1% statistic versus 2%, but either way, the fact parents/coaches/admins don't not only know this but preach it just boggles my mind.
#4) Not maintaining her verbal w/ VA Tech while continuing to take her visits.
Not part of the article but other facts that explain #'s to the overall picture...
There are over 190 NCAA I swimming programs and a total of 640 women's swimming collegiate programs. Not all of those offer scholarships, but just some numbers.
There are over 165,000 female HS swimminers
There are over 13,000 females collegiate swimmers/divers.
7.8% go on to compete in college; 3% in NCAA Division I. 3% is higher than typical #'s but this I personally believe this is skewed higher because "swimming families" are typically affluent.
The average athleic scholarship for UCLA is 14k+
So, her the article, assuming she signs her LOI, she will be swimming at UCLA next year.
On paper it looks like she is getting a 35% from UCLA versus a 30% from Va Tech.
However I have to wonder who is advising her family from a financial pov.
Without knowing any information about this family but comparing them to a "typical swimming" family, they will qualify for 0 financial aid.
So, UCLA will make her (as well as any scholarship athlete in the UC system) a resident after freshman year
The coa @ UCLA is $61k for out of state.
This will only apply to her freshman year, and UCLA will pick up 21k and her parents will cover the $40k.
Then UCLA will make her a CA resident (as the entire UC system does for scholarship athletes) and her family will continue to pay the $40k of the $35k of her now in-state COA and the remaining $5k counts towards the 14 scholarship limit (unless UCLA swim/dive is already fully funded).
Va Tech coa is almost $24k. VAT would cover 7k+ and her parents would be responsible for around $17k.
Both are top 25 programs.
Some things I think aren't touched on...
There is no "myth" about college scholarships.
It is simply a numbers game.
I read this article more as a top level swimmer thinking her skills were in more demand than they actually were.
Virginia (in her home state and a fine academic school) is a top 5 program, maybe they aren't in the mix because her specialty event. Spreading 14 scholarships between 30-40 athletes is difficult and there are many factors to consider outside of simply a "time".
Scholarships are an investment by a coach/program to an athlete. Not just times/marks will factor in. A bad visit, a negative word by a club/HS coach, can affect that $5-$25k+ decision. Sometimes, it's just pure luck. If she didn't take the visit at her own expense would UCLA still have offered her?
In this information age, if parents are still surprised by the "facts of college scholarships", then the fault is their own.
I am no longer a swimming parent, but when I was, in our annual parent meeting "the pyramid presentation" was the most informative part of the meeting. The entire presentation is about numbers from youth swimming, to elite national swimmers, number of colleges, scholarships etc. Not sure if the numbers changed, but it showed all the schools in the entire state of California that offered swimming/diving and water polo scholarships at the public/private universities.
Our own rinky dink HS offers a similar presentation for our athletic department, and there are further detailed presentations offered for individual teams (typically the better/more organized the coach the better the presentation) and the school I teach at is no beacon of athletic prowess.
The school my son attends operates on a different spectrum than our school. They actually have a "signing" day for dozens of students, versus us with our athlete or two a year.
Not exactly on this topic, but it was touched on in the threa...
I wanted to clarify something about Division III and Ivy league.
I think any of us familiar with the process understand there is no such thing as an "athletic scholarship" at schools like Princeton, Cornell, La Verne, and Oberlin.
However, I think it's important to understand at those same schools there are students who receive financial aid packages that would otherwise be different at that same school if athlete "A" did NOT play sport "B".
Is is technically an "athletic scholarship" ska "grant in aid" no it isn't. Would the money exist if so & so didn't play such & such?
In at least 80% of the cases I have personally dealt with, absolutely not.
The Ivy's have a very specific aid program based on the parent's income. Being a recruited athlete will give you a leg up on admissions though. For DIII, I agree, and we were flat out told when we were going through the process, that the coaches have some leeway with the academic awards for their athletes. At least at the schools our kids considered, they did have to have the stats (test scores/GPA) to get the money, but they were still "academic" offers. They just can't be labeled "athletic scholarships".
#1) Thousands of dollars a year, including some years of over $10k
Someone already mentioned this, but this is clearly money spent better in a college savings from strictly a ROI pov. Enough to attend UVA w/out an athletic obligation.
#2) For most (not all) athletes, spring if your junior year is simply TOO LATE for serious recruiting.
In this information age, if parents are still surprised by the "facts of college scholarships", then the fault is their own.
I am no longer a swimming parent, but when I was, in our annual parent meeting "the pyramid presentation" was the most informative part of the meeting. The entire presentation is about numbers from youth swimming, to elite national swimmers, number of colleges, scholarships etc. Not sure if the numbers changed, but it showed all the schools in the entire state of California that offered swimming/diving and water polo scholarships at the public/private universities.
Our own rinky dink HS offers a similar presentation for our athletic department, and there are further detailed presentations offered for individual teams (typically the better/more organized the coach the better the presentation) and the school I teach at is no beacon of athletic prowess.
The school my son attends operates on a different spectrum than our school. They actually have a "signing" day for dozens of students, versus us with our athlete or two a year.
I agree with virtually everything you posted. I don't have experience with swimming, so I don't know how swimming clubs operate especially with paid coaches. My experience was with basketball, track, and soccer. The high school provided no assistance. The only thing the local high schools do is have a picture taken for the local newspaper with the parents, coach, athletic director, and principal with the athlete as they are supposedly signing with a college.
I contacted coaches and arranged visits. My brother-in-law is currently in a similar position. His daughter is at a larger, more affluent high school but the school has not provided any assistance or presentation. I've run into few athletic directors who have any experience with recruiting.
Regarding "Thousands of dollars a year, including some years of over $10k," this is not unusual with sports like hockey. My in-laws were spending that much on one of their children with no expectation of a college scholarship.
Regarding "For most (not all) athletes, spring if your junior year is simply TOO LATE for serious recruiting," I think that might be the ideal situation, but in reality in sports like football, basketball, and track and field, that many who are not the top of the elite don't have that luxury. My daughter went to states in track as a junior. She came on strong in April of that year. We had not given any consideration up to that point of her doing track in college. In basketball, much of the recruiting of the top players is done at AAU tournaments in the summer before their senior year. In football, I've seen very few verbal offers until the senior year.
I agree with virtually everything you posted. I don't have experience with swimming, so I don't know how swimming clubs operate especially with paid coaches. My experience was with basketball, track, and soccer. The high school provided no assistance. The only thing the local high schools do is have a picture taken for the local newspaper with the parents, coach, athletic director, and principal with the athlete as they are supposedly signing with a college.
I contacted coaches and arranged visits. My brother-in-law is currently in a similar position. His daughter is at a larger, more affluent high school but the school has not provided any assistance or presentation. I've run into few athletic directors who have any experience with recruiting.
Regarding "Thousands of dollars a year, including some years of over $10k," this is not unusual with sports like hockey. My in-laws were spending that much on one of their children with no expectation of a college scholarship.
Regarding "For most (not all) athletes, spring if your junior year is simply TOO LATE for serious recruiting," I think that might be the ideal situation, but in reality in sports like football, basketball, and track and field, that many who are not the top of the elite don't have that luxury. My daughter went to states in track as a junior. She came on strong in April of that year. We had not given any consideration up to that point of her doing track in college. In basketball, much of the recruiting of the top players is done at AAU tournaments in the summer before their senior year. In football, I've seen very few verbal offers until the senior year.
Our experience in soccer was similar to yours. School did not get involved in the recruiting process at all, no information provided, no help from the soccer coaches.
The club my daughter played for however provided a great deal of assistance with parent/player information sessions and the coach sat down with players early in their Junior year to go over list of colleges they were looking at and then reached out to all the coaches on the players list. The club coach tends to act as a go between which is how they can skirt restrictions on contacting players directly.
Soccer recruiting for girls happens quite a bit earlier than on the boys side for most sports. The top girls going to ACC level schools typically verbally commit by Sophomore year. The next best players are usually committed by Junior year with most recruiting over with by Spring of Junior Year. It is crazy how young these girls are making these decisions. It really pushes up the time table on things, we were taking college tours with our daughter as a freshman and sophomore because we knew she would probably be making a decision as a Junior.
On the boys side, also similar experience to yours. Most boys in football, basketball and soccer commit Senior year.
There are exceptions for the blue chip recruits who typically do hear sooner. One boy at my daughter's high school had a full ride for baseball to an ACC school offered as a Sophomore, he ended being drafted by the Braves early rounds as a high school senior. His brother is a blue chip football recruit and has offers from most of the SEC schools and he is a junior.
Our experience in soccer was similar to yours. School did not get involved in the recruiting process at all, no information provided, no help from the soccer coaches.
The club my daughter played for however provided a great deal of assistance with parent/player information sessions and the coach sat down with players early in their Junior year to go over list of colleges they were looking at and then reached out to all the coaches on the players list. The club coach tends to act as a go between which is how they can skirt restrictions on contacting players directly.
Soccer recruiting for girls happens quite a bit earlier than on the boys side for most sports. The top girls going to ACC level schools typically verbally commit by Sophomore year. The next best players are usually committed by Junior year with most recruiting over with by Spring of Junior Year. It is crazy how young these girls are making these decisions. It really pushes up the time table on things, we were taking college tours with our daughter as a freshman and sophomore because we knew she would probably be making a decision as a Junior.
On the boys side, also similar experience to yours. Most boys in football, basketball and soccer commit Senior year.
There are exceptions for the blue chip recruits who typically do hear sooner. One boy at my daughter's high school had a full ride for baseball to an ACC school offered as a Sophomore, he ended being drafted by the Braves early rounds as a high school senior. His brother is a blue chip football recruit and has offers from most of the SEC schools and he is a junior.
Sure, they commit senior year, but the recruiting process starts well before then. Verbal commitments technically are not binding and until you sign your National Letter of Intent, which doesn't happen until Nov or later in your senior year, you technically have not really committed to playing anywhere. Also, technically college coaches can't officially offer money before Nov 1st (Sept 1st???) senior year, but, with blue chip recruits at fully funded programs, it's a given that the offer will be full ride for football, etc.
I'm really surprised at the lack of help from the high schools here. Our kids had to attend an info session freshman year if they were interested in paying college sports at any level. The AD, coaches and counselors talked about the recruiting process, timelines, etc. Then, sophomore year, coaches that felt they may have a scholarship eligible athlete had to meet with them, give them more recruiting help/info and the AD was in contact with the kids as well. When the kids started with visits, the AD met with them to make sure they were not violating recruiting by getting trips paid and such. Then, when the time came to sign the NLI's, the AD offered to read over the contracts with the families to make sure everything was in order.
Lots of great info in this thread. I have a question about prospective college athletes that aren't phenoms, but are above average and have a desire to play collegiate athletics.
I've researched, looked at rosters and googled but can't find an answer. I understand that things vary from year to year, but I'm just looking for an average. How many kids are playing college sports without any type of scholarship? I assume the big name schools have top athletes that are all probably on scholarship, I'm more interested in the smaller schools.
Our story: My son is a high school junior. He may want to play college baseball. We (his parents and he) are under no illusion that he'll receive a scholarship, athletic or academic....athletically, because he's not a super star, though he's very good and definitely above average...academically, because he's applying to out of state schools and we don't want to count on any type of scholarship. Bonus, if he gets anything.
Unfortunately, baseball has fallen out of favor at his school. In the spring, it's all about lacrosse now. There are no awards to be had and no state championships to be won for the baseball players. This means my son doesn't have any accolades to mention. Looking at the current rosters for some of the college teams, it seems every kid has some award attached to their name.
If my son wants to play college ball, does he even have a chance and if so, what steps should he take? Are the recruiting camps that some of the schools offer a good step to get noticed, or are they a waste of money? Should he reach out to coaches via email and see what they have to say?
Lots of great info in this thread. I have a question about prospective college athletes that aren't phenoms, but are above average and have a desire to play collegiate athletics.
I've researched, looked at rosters and googled but can't find an answer. I understand that things vary from year to year, but I'm just looking for an average. How many kids are playing college sports without any type of scholarship? I assume the big name schools have top athletes that are all probably on scholarship, I'm more interested in the smaller schools.
Our story: My son is a high school junior. He may want to play college baseball. We (his parents and he) are under no illusion that he'll receive a scholarship, athletic or academic....athletically, because he's not a super star, though he's very good and definitely above average...academically, because he's applying to out of state schools and we don't want to count on any type of scholarship. Bonus, if he gets anything.
Unfortunately, baseball has fallen out of favor at his school. In the spring, it's all about lacrosse now. There are no awards to be had and no state championships to be won for the baseball players. This means my son doesn't have any accolades to mention. Looking at the current rosters for some of the college teams, it seems every kid has some award attached to their name.
If my son wants to play college ball, does he even have a chance and if so, what steps should he take? Are the recruiting camps that some of the schools offer a good step to get noticed, or are they a waste of money? Should he reach out to coaches via email and see what they have to say?
It sounds as if his best bet is to look at Division III schools. There are somewhere around 380 D-III baseball programs. Another possibility are NAIA schools. These schools are predominately in the Midwest and can give athletic scholarships. I would start with a spreadsheet of the D-III schools that meet his academic and geographic requirements. These coaches typically want to start with a video of the athlete performing, and academic qualifications.
He's looking at the west coast. At a glance, I recognized some of the private southern Ca. and Oregon schools on one of the lists. Unfortunately the price tags at some of these colleges can be quite high.
Your links are a great start though.
Thank-you.
Last edited by Radio Flyer; 11-26-2016 at 11:15 AM..
Sure, they commit senior year, but the recruiting process starts well before then. Verbal commitments technically are not binding and until you sign your National Letter of Intent, which doesn't happen until Nov or later in your senior year, you technically have not really committed to playing anywhere. Also, technically college coaches can't officially offer money before Nov 1st (Sept 1st???) senior year, but, with blue chip recruits at fully funded programs, it's a given that the offer will be full ride for football, etc.
I'm really surprised at the lack of help from the high schools here. Our kids had to attend an info session freshman year if they were interested in paying college sports at any level. The AD, coaches and counselors talked about the recruiting process, timelines, etc. Then, sophomore year, coaches that felt they may have a scholarship eligible athlete had to meet with them, give them more recruiting help/info and the AD was in contact with the kids as well. When the kids started with visits, the AD met with them to make sure they were not violating recruiting by getting trips paid and such. Then, when the time came to sign the NLI's, the AD offered to read over the contracts with the families to make sure everything was in order.
Yeah you are right about the recruiting process starting earlier at least for the top recruits but at least around here in NC, not many verbal commits before the start of senior on the boys side for any sports for the majority of players....
In the case of football and basketball at the D1 FBS level at least, those are head count sports so the only offer that can be made is full scholarship...can't split them. FCS football schools can divide scholarships
What you describe at your schools sounds tremendous....I wish they had similar programs for the kids here.
At least the clubs fill in the void around here for sports like soccer, volleyball, softball and baseball....
My kids school has one of top ranked football and basketball programs around but talking to those parents, they are really on their own when it comes to navigating the college recruiting process which is tough...
This is an interesting thread. We are in the same county as the student highlighted in the article. My son, a junior in high school, swims year round and is on a club that practices six days a week. The difference I note is we pay for him to swim with the club mainly because he enjoys it, not because our goal is to get a college scholarship. Of course any help would be nice, but he likes the social aspects of it and it is something at which he excels...not to the point of the swimmer in the article, but he's good and I have no doubt he could swim somewhere in college. Honestly I think he is probably better than I realize as I tend to downplay things.
As far as swimming in college it is something he wants to do and we have had very little guidance as to what to do and when to start. It's easy to find information online, but there is so much to go through and so many varied opinions it does get overwhelming. It's something we are trying to figure out. Some say paid recruiting sites are worth the money and others say no. Talking to other swim parents hasn't helped much, but we don't really hang with other swim parents and don't get too caught up in it.
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