Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Success in the law profession is about more than simply landing your first job in a high paying law firm. Today it is more about marketing than anything else. Which school has the best alumnae support network? Which school has a large number of successful business school graduates who can become your clients years after you graduate? Where are you most likely to make business connections that will lead to originations 5 years after you graduate?
Good/competent lawyers are pretty common. Lawyers with connections are called the boss - no matter whether they are competent. In fact many of the top lawyers spend very little time practicing law and barely know their way around the courtroom or a contract. They spend all their time fostering client relationships. When it comes to doing the work, many of them best serve their clients by staying out of the way (although some insist on participating in meetings where they can use their great wisdom acquired from years of marketing experience, to bill some hours to the file).
Socially, avoid law students. Hang out with the B school students, or engineers, med school, or some other profession that will allow you to make future business connections. Dentistry and veterinarians are often overlooked potential sources of legal business. Law students are just competition. Plus they are not the most fun group to hang out with anyway, they just want to argue all the time. So if the school you are looking at mostly graduates teachers and college professors, bad choice, they will never become client connections. If the law school is physically separated from the other grad schools, - bad choice (sometimes the law school is in an entirely different city - this is a terrible choice). Choose the school with good or at least big programs in business, engineering, construction management, mining, hotel management, etc.
While a top law school will help you get your first job, you will not go anywhere until you are a successful marketer. If you want to succeed as a lawyer go to a good school, but that is not going to get you far. Work as a used car salesman in the summers and on weekends. The skills you learn there will serve you better than anything you will learn in law school. Join every volunteer organization that include business owners. Make connections, practice marketing. Take any marketing or sales classes at the business school that you are allowed to take.
Practicing law is all about getting clients, there really is no need to be competent to succeed. Thus, a "better" law school will only help you get your first job or two. It will not do much to help you succeed long term. Not anymore.
If you are going to stay local, do no worry about the schools national reputation. Look at the local reputations and alumnae network. For example, if you want to live in Southern California, you are far better off going to USC law than to say, Cornell even though USC is not ranked as highly. Some Texas regional schools will be the same.
With a University of Michigan degree, it was much easier for me to get a job in another state than locally. Locally the school was viewed as snobby, elitist, and there were a lot more lawyers in law firms from other schools. Often lawyers are more likely to hire a candidate from their law school than someone from a better law school. I might have been better off as far as getting a job in the area, to have had top grades from a lower ranked law school with a larger local alumnae presence, if I was going to remain local. U-M opened doors for me to readily find a job anywhere in the USA at the time, but less effectively in Michigan than elsewhere (which was fine, since I had my heart set on Southern California). So if you want to leave the region, or keep options open, a top school is critical, but if you know where you want to live, a regional school can be a better option.
As to the employment stats, I wonder how many of those "employed" persons are working through Kelly Services for $22/hour, or working in the government jobs that pay less than $40K a year? How many are doing unpaid internships in order to get experience and get an "in"? How many are working in dead end insurance jobs where they will milk you for all of your free time, treat you like crap and give you tiny raises after enticing you with a seemingly substantial starting salary? How many are self employed in their own law firm with only two clients because they could not get a job at an established firm?
The practice of law has become a dismal profession. Even if you "make it" in the law firm lifestyle, you will most likely be miserable. It is not what you think it is. No more noble profession. No more high thinking, creative cleverness, etc. It is a grind. Endless reading, writing, filling out forms, doing meaningless tasks that serve no purpose other than to allow you to bill more hours. Constant drudgery bending under the heavy weight of requirements for billable hours and origination. You can expect billable hour requirements of 2000 hours per year (which means 2500 hours of work), plus on top of that - marketing/origination requirements, administrative requirements, continuing education requirements. In order to succeed, you have to have no real personal time at all. Everything you do has to be dedicated to either working or getting clients. Your free time needs to be spent entirely on marketing endeavors. Having a party? It needs to be a potential client party. Going on vacation? Go hunting with a group of clients and potential clients. I know lawyers who even invited clients or potential clients along on their honeymoon. Every aspect of your life needs to be about billing hours or business getting. Your hobbies, socializing, everything needs to be centered around your law practice. It even makes sense to marry into a family that can provide client connections or a steady source of legal business. That is how you succeed in law now.
If your goal is short term success followed by unhappy mediocrity, simply choose the best rated law school you can get into. Go work for a big firm and stagnate at year 5 until they ask you to leave, then go work for a mediocre firm - maybe someone will retire or die and you can inherit their client base. However, if your goal is long term success, choose the school that will provide the best marketing opportunities/connections.
Often the sons and daughters of business owners (who will eventually be running the businesses) are not found at the top schools. Figure out where tomorrows CEOs are going to school and that is your best choice.
If you already have business connections - do not worry about it. Go to the law school that has the prettiest undergrads. With connections, you will succeed no matter where you go to law school.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 06-23-2017 at 10:18 AM..
Success in the law profession is about more than simply landing your first job in a high paying law firm. Today it is more about marketing than anything else. Which school has the best alumnae support network? Which school has a large number of successful business school graduates who can become your clients years after you graduate? Where are you most likely to make business connections that will lead to originations 5 years after you graduate?
Good/competent lawyers are pretty common. Lawyers with connections are called the boss - no matter whether they are competent. In fact many of the top lawyers spend very little time practicing law and barely know their way around the courtroom or a contract. They spend all their time fostering client relationships. When it comes to doing the work, many of them best serve their clients by staying out of the way (although some insist on participating in meetings where they can use their great wisdom acquired from years of marketing experience, to bill some hours to the file).
Socially, avoid law students. Hang out with the B school students, or engineers, med school, or some other profession that will allow you to make future business connections. Dentistry and veterinarians are often overlooked potential sources of legal business. Law students are just competition. Plus they are not the most fun group to hang out with anyway, they just want to argue all the time. So if the school you are looking at mostly graduates teachers and college professors, bad choice, they will never become client connections. Choose the school with good or at least big programs in business, engineering, construction management, mining, hotel management, etc.
While a top law school will help you get your first job, you will not go anywhere until you are a successful marketer. If you want to succeed as a lawyer go to a good school, but that is not going to get you far. Work as a used car salesman in the summers and on weekends. The skills you learn there will serve you better than anything you will learn in law school. Join every volunteer organization that include business owners. Make connections, practice marketing. Take any marketing or sales classes at the business school that you are allowed to take.
Practicing law is all about getting clients, there really is no need to be competent to succeed. Thus, a "better" law school will only help you get your first job or two. It will not do much to help you succeed long term. Not anymore.
If you are going to stay local, do no worry about the schools national reputation. Look at the local reputations and alumnae network. For example, if you want to live in Southern California, you are far better off going to USC law than to say, Cornell even though USC is not ranked as highly. Some Texas regional schools will be the same.
With a University of Michigan degree, it was much easier for me to get a job in another state than locally. Locally the school was viewed as snobby, elitist, and there were a lot more lawyers in law firms from other schools. Often lawyers are more likely to hire a candidate form their law school than someone from a better law school. I might have been better off as far as getting a job in the area, to have had top grades from a lower ranked law school if I was going to remain local. U-M opened doors for me to readily find a job anywhere int he USA at the time, but less effectively than in Michigan.
As to the employment stats, I wonder how many of those "employed" persons are working through Kelly Services for $22/hour, or working int he government jobs that pay less than $40K a year? How many are doing unpaid internships in order to get experience and get an "in"? How many are working in dead end insurance jobs where they will milk you for all of your free time, treat you like crap and give you tiny raises after enticing you will a seemingly substantial starting salary? How many are self employed in their own law firm with only two clients because they could not get a job at an established firm?
The practice of law has become a dismal profession. Even if you "make it" in the law firm lifestyle, you will most likely be miserable. It is not what you think it is. No more noble profession. No more high thinking, creative cleverness, etc. It is a grind. Endless reading, writing, filling out forms, doing meaningless tasks that serve no purpose other than to allow you to bill more hours. Constant drudgery bending under the heavy weight of requirements for billable hours and origination. yo can expect billable hour requirements of 2000 hours per year (which means 2500 hours of work), plus on top of that - marketing/origination requirements, administrative requirements, continuing education requirements. In order to succeed, you have to have no real personal time at all. Everything you do ha to be dedicated to either working or getting clients. You free time needs to be spent entirely on marketing endeavors. Having a party? I needs to be a potential client party. Going on vacation? Go hunting with a group of clients and potential clients. Every aspect of your life needs to be about billing hours or business getting. Your hobbies, socializing, everything needs to be centered around your law practice. It even makes sense to marry into a family that can provide client connections or a steady source of legal business. That is how you succeed in law now.
If your goal is short term success followed by unhappy mediocrity, simply choose the best rated law school you can get into. If your goal is long term success, choose the school that will provide the best marketing opportunities/connections.
Often the sons and daughters of business owners (who will eventually be running the businesses) are not fond at that top schools. Figure out where tomorrows CEOs are going to school and that is your best choice.
UT law fits the bill.
I seriously thought about going to law school when I was an undergrad in Electrical Engineering, but I decided not to go after doing my research. It's miserable.
The amount of bad information in this thread is staggering. Baylor is in no way the best law school in the state - that goes to UT. Baylor is third-tier behind UT, then one of SMU or UofH (depending on where you want to practice).
I'm a little surprised to see this is the only post that mentions The University of Houston. It's a solid law school and clustered right around SMU and Baylor in the US News rankings. Its programs for Health Law and Environmental Law (I believe) are very well regarded.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
